Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed?

[Stijloor]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

I absolutely disagree with that statement! ISO doesn't require "sheer tonnage" of documentation. Many organizations have imposed tons of documentation on themselves and (in my opinion) they suffer for it.

On the other hand, I've seen ISO registered organizations with wonderful systems implemented with lean principles. Their documentation is simple, effective, and flexible where it needs to be.

I agree with howste! Very good point!

It's a real shame that at this day and age, some folks still not understand what ISO (quality system) standards are all about....

Lean and ISO do not have to be at odds.....

Stijloor.

 

[aotiel]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

ISO and Lean are not at odds, you are correct. HOWEVER, the way 98% of organizations function within ISO is wasteful. I didn't say ISO required the tonnage, merely that the vast majority of companies generate tonnage.

From my experience with ISO, it is merely "do as you say and say as you do." Too bad so many organizations fail in this simple respect. Still, Standardized Work really should not be included as an ISO document in my opinion.

 

[RoxaneB]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

ISO and Lean are not at odds, you are correct. HOWEVER, the way 98% of organizations function within ISO is wasteful. I didn't say ISO required the tonnage, merely that the vast majority of companies generate tonnage.

From my experience with ISO, it is merely "do as you say and say as you do." Too bad so many organizations fail in this simple respect. Still, Standardized Work really should not be included as an ISO document in my opinion.

You talk about handfuls of ISO-generated documentation being wasteful and then allude to having information maintained in two separate systems. That, too, is a form of waste in my opinion.

The goal of a management system should be to incorporate all programs, tools, methodologies and philosophies into ONE...ONE language, ONE system, ONE culture.

 

[howste]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

ISO and Lean are not at odds, you are correct. HOWEVER, the way 98% of organizations function within ISO is wasteful. I didn't say ISO required the tonnage, merely that the vast majority of companies generate tonnage.

From my experience with ISO, it is merely "do as you say and say as you do." Too bad so many organizations fail in this simple respect. Still, Standardized Work really should not be included as an ISO document in my opinion.

Are you saying that Standardized Work documents should not be controlled? Can you explain why?

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

ISO and Lean are not at odds, you are correct. HOWEVER, the way 98% of organizations function within ISO is wasteful. I didn't say ISO required the tonnage, merely that the vast majority of companies generate tonnage.

From my experience with ISO, it is merely "do as you say and say as you do." Too bad so many organizations fail in this simple respect. Still, Standardized Work really should not be included as an ISO document in my opinion.

It sounds like you're advocating throwing out the baby with the bath water. One of the prime challenges in developing lean systems and standardized work in an ISO-registered company is the development of lean documentation systems. There's no reason that standardized-work documentation can't (or shouldn't) be controlled. If the documentation system is too burdensome, fix it.

 

[aotiel]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

Standardized Work documents are an agreement between the operators and the supervisor on the best method to complete a process. The documents are available for change at any and all times through kaizen by the operators. They embody the true spirit of Lean, continuous improvement at the source. When documents are controlled, they now have to go through a change/audit process, contradictory with Lean continuous and instantaneous improvement. Organizations who are true die-hards on Lean will prefer (almost demand) that Standardized Work be written in pencil, so changes can be easily and readily made.

Management control is a large cause of difficulty of Lean implementation. Gary Convis (former Toyota NA exec) said it best, "Lead as if you have no power." That's very difficult for traditional style managers.

 

[aotiel]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

It sounds like you're advocating throwing out the baby with the bath water. One of the prime challenges in developing lean systems and standardized work in an ISO-registered company is the development of lean documentation systems. There's no reason that standardized-work documentation can't (or shouldn't) be controlled. If the documentation system is too burdensome, fix it.

So back to my original statement, paperwork. That's the problem with so many of these systems. Fill out paperwork, then wait for control approval, then fill out more paperwork tomorrow when things change...

Standardized Work is not an SOP or work standard. Those are documents often controlled. I can't wait for the company that distributes a controlled document on how to use the restroom to meet ISO requirements imposed on it by some internal or external auditor.

 

[Sandyd]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

I'm finding this exchange very interesting, but can we back up for just a moment. I want to make sure we are talking the same language.

LEAN Standard Work documents include cell layout, TAKT times, 5S, safety, etc.

ISO Work Instruction documents give step by step instructions (hopefully with pictures) -- short, sweet and to the point, this is "how you do this job."

My feeling is that they should all be within the QMS documentation system and that yes, management (supervisors) should be aware of the changes being made to the documents and/or job instructions/work flow.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

Standardized Work is not an SOP or work standard. Those are documents often controlled.

Standardized work, per se, is not a document, but there is documentation involved, or there's no basis for standardization.

I can't wait for the company that distributes a controlled document on how to use the restroom to meet ISO requirements imposed on it by some internal or external auditor.

ISO requirements aren't (or shouldn't be) imposed by auditors--they're verified by auditors. Like I said before, if the documentation system is inefficient, it's a prime target for Lean improvement. If you feel a need to circumvent the documentation system, it's a sign that the documentation system is poorly designed.

 

[aotiel]

Re: Are 'Standard Work Documents' used by "All" who implemented LEAN & Control Needed

I'm finding this exchange very interesting, but can we back up for just a moment. I want to make sure we are talking the same language.

LEAN Standard Work documents include cell layout, TAKT times, 5S, safety, etc.

ISO Work Instruction documents give step by step instructions (hopefully with pictures) -- short, sweet and to the point, this is "how you do this job."

My feeling is that they should all be within the QMS documentation system and that yes, management (supervisors) should be aware of the changes being made to the documents and/or job instructions/work flow.

Lean Standardized Work is a single, one-page (preferred) document. I have several examples I could share. The other items you reference are all used to create standardized work, but are not part of the standardized work document posted at the machine.

Your definition of ISO Standard Work is more appropriate for the Lean Standardized Work. (Which would be fantastic, by the way!)

In my experience, most ISO "procedures" documents are more like SOP/Work Standards/Work Instructions, more in-depth and "extensive training"-style formats.

I'm new to Elsmar Cove. Can you post attachments? If so, how? Then I could post a sample Standardized Work sheet.