Regulation (EU) 2017/745 of the European Parliament

Ronen E

Problem Solver
Moderator
I'm all for raising the bar, but these devices have been flying under the radar for decades, so, in the whole great scheme of things, another two years for 1r devices doesn't matter to me, as long as the bar gets raised...not just for 1r devices, but for all of them.
I was addressing class 1r devices in particular only because that was the only obvious extension (when I commented I didn't consider upclassified SW). However, I think that the same approach can be generalised to the entire MDR, which represents a serious raising of the bar (theoretically), and has been explicitly, clearly and consistently, intended to do so. You may well argue that the implementation of that intention was flawed (and I'd agree), but that was the intention and the driving force (as far as I can tell), and we don't live in a perfect world...

As to "what difference two more years make" - sure... But don't forget that the MDR has been in the making for years, then there was the 3 years built-in transition, now this, and there are additional grace periods in the MDR itself. All in all, it'll soon be a decade since the PIP fiasco, which was (I think) the visible trigger that set the actual creation of the MDR in motion, and it's even longer since a vocal agreement started to form that the MDD was outdated and something serious had to be done about it.
It has certainly been the tone around the internet, but whether this tone was the EC's tone, I can't say. Can you?
I can't say, but there's circumstantial evidence - the fact that until now (pretty much the last minute) no extensions have been granted even though there was a lot of buzz around all sorts of issues (e.g. lack of NB capacity, lack of implementing rules, lack of official guidance documents) hindering full application on time.
I've mostly heard these claims from people who said that the EC said, or from people like Erik Vollebregt, who was commenting on what the EU law allows, not on claims made by the EC.
I don't have personal connections within the EU commission and the likes, but I don't have a problem with trusting people like Erik even though he's not an official representative. Not as a single source; it helped me form a picture together with other indications. The opposite of "There will be absolutely no extensions" would be "We are definitely considering providing extensions as necessary" - I haven't come across anything indicating the latter, hence my intuitive conclusion that that wasn't the Union's stance.
If it was in an online post, I'd look for a link to a source, but would not find one. I would sometimes ask, but get no answer, or the source was someone somehow affiliated with the EC speaking at an industry meeting, not an official statement. And often not a proactive claim, just a response to a question that was only ever going to get one answer. Perhaps even asked to elicit the answer, so that it could be repeated.
I agree that the EU system is not characterised by a high degree of transparency.
This brings up another thing the companies that have already conformed to the new requirements should be cheering about instead of whining about...less competition, bigger market share. This means their investment in resources should yield an attractive return, which is the important thing, not whether that investment was made over the last couple of years instead of the next couple of years.
Clearly you are not talking like a financial investor... If the competition effectively begins being culled in 2022 rather than in 2020, and the funds for gaining the resulting advantage were already invested by now, it will have an effect on the ROI.
Same goes for "pay me now" vs. "pay me later".
The other group that is being seriously caught out is all the eager service providers who repeatedly insisted that the EC would not extend, not that they were in a position to know. Serious credibility hit.
Let's not get carried away. At the moment "the surprise" is quite localised.
Being one of those "eager service providers who repeatedly insisted that the EC would not extend", I don't care too much about my "credibility hit" because I was always considered by some potential clients as "over cautious", anyway. As a RA consultant, you don't need a regulator to make a high-visibility U-turn to find yourself in that position, because when your client "does everything right" (as you've told them) and everything goes smoothly they are likely to conclude that all that fuss was unnecessary ("See? You made us do way too much"). It's a paradox built into the profession, and I'd guess you've had your share of that too. As for me, experience taught me that clients that only care about minimising the effort and always prefer the risky path (not "better safe than sorry") are not really long-term prospective clients, and while they do keep me on board the ride is quite rough.
 
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Watchcat

Trusted Information Resource
You may well argue that the implementation of that intention was flawed

I may, but I won't, not until it has actually been implemented. Or not implemented.

don't forget that the MDR has been in the making for years...

This long timeframe is consistent with my expectations of an entity like the EC. It takes a single government long enough to get anything done. A government that is a collection of governments...it is for this reason that I'll be satisfied to see the bar raised, whenever. As you say it is not a perfect world, and decidedly less perfect in some areas than others.

I don't have a problem with trusting people like Erik even though he's not an official representative.

I trust no one. I either verify or accept that I don't know. Erik's position has been not that they won't extend, but that, due to aspects of EU law that I don't understand, they can't. I accept that the correngidum is a correction, not an extension, so for me, it doesn't call his credibility into question. If the EC just up and extends the May 2020 deadline, I will still keep an open mind, and see what his explanation is. Then I will decide.

Clearly you are not talking like a financial investor...

You are correct, I am not.

It's a paradox built into the profession, and I'd guess you've had your share of that too.

I'd say it is a paradox built into human nature. Remember Y2K? People said the same thing then. They also say the same thing every time they are told to prepare for a hurricane and it ends up going another way.
 

Watchcat

Trusted Information Resource
Let's not get carried away. At the moment "the surprise" is quite localised.
Being one of those "eager service providers who repeatedly insisted that the EC would not extend", I don't care too much about my "credibility hit" because I was always considered by some potential clients as "over cautious", anyway.

I've been meaning to get back to this one for some time, finally got a breather.

What you insist to your clients is client management. I was talking about those who were insisting all over the internet.
 

KMohan27

Registered
Hello All,

I was going through this thread and I have a question. Could any of you please help me understand. Does EU MDR allows a manufacturer to make a clinical investigation/evaluation of their product using tissue engineered bio phantom instead of human subjects. If yes could you also list the articles and annexes that I have to go through. It would be great if it could be explained with some example say class II catheter.

Thanks in advance.
 
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