posted 30 September 1999 01:29 PM               

I looked at Powerway and went to one of their seminars. I was close to purchasing their product until I contacted some of the contacts they provided. Some of the replies were not favorable. Powerway is also more expensive than any other software that I looked at because they sell it by module.

posted 05 October 1999 08:06 AM               

All that said....I like a home grown system best. if you go canned be sure you can manipulate it to suit your needs...no sense adding pain to the process.

AdobeAcrobat 'pdf files' is a good way to go as well..ensures compatability with any system, only needs a license for the writers...reader is a free download..nice cause you can do drawings, and send to suppliers, etc. and not worry which version of what software people have...a plus for several locations

[This message has been edited by barb butrym (edited 05 October 1999).]

posted 09 November 1999 01:57 PM               

I was checking out some prices on software for a client and called Powerway. They gave me a guy named David Armstrong. He flat out told me Powerway doesn't work with consultants. I said I just was trying to get some prices on modules and he told me in so many words prices are none of my business.

posted 09 November 1999 02:45 PM               

What can you tell me about ISI? Is their web site ISI.com and do you have any prices?

I talked with CyberMetrics and their SUPPLIERtrak ran about US$1K a seat.

I'm really looking for some basic non-conformance / corrective action stuff. I'm not sure I want to learn Access.... Then again...

posted 19 November 1999 10:58 AM               

Subject: Comments on Powerway
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:47:24 -0500
From: bill cox
To: Marc

As a member of the management team for POWERWAY, reading the comments from Mr. Smith were very disturbing. After investigating the incident I would like to offer Mr. Smith or anyone who has similar comments to contact me direct at 1-800-964-9004 X6778 or at dwcox@powerway.com . In reference to POWERWAY products and services sometimes our competitors, become disgruntled when trying to acquire prices before discussing their goals and objectives with us. Each company we work with is very different and the pricing structure is different for the modules depending on whether they are single workstations or a network environment. Our single unit prices are $825.00 per module. and our network unit prices $595.00 per module. (Note: discounts are assigned by the number of units purchased).

posted 20 November 1999 06:27 AM               

I can see the sense in getting as much of your documentation loaded onto a central server somewhere, and distributing by E Mail. I also have good experience of spreading the message through company Intranets. But can anybody educate me of other advantages from proprietry software.

Regards
Andy

posted 20 November 1999 11:11 PM               

Some things like document control can be handled by canned systems OK, but then again. For example, say your level 2's are flow charts. How will the canned software handle it? Canned systems are generally pretty structured. What if you want to add a field or change formatting? My own opinion is that choice 1 should be write a customized database specific to your business.

I guess I haven't really given you positive aspects, though. Well, they can be simple for some companies to implement, I guess.

Some canned software only makes sense - such as gage control with R&R and such.

Sometimes a company doesn't have internal folks who can write, say, an Access or Filemaker database and hiring someone from the outside will sometimes exceed the price of canned software.

posted 09 December 1999 03:27 PM            

There is a corrective action software that is put out by the Harrington Group. The Harrington Group also has many other software programs for quality. I have no experience with these programs other than the demos. Their website is http://www.harrington-group.com

Again, I would appreciate any feedback regarding either Integral solutions software or the Harrington Group's, or both.

posted 29 December 1999 09:57 AM               

I haven't seen any other software that is so complete and user friendly. It is Microsoft Access based and the document system works with MS Office documents as well as many others. They also offer customization for all parts of the software, including customized reports.

----------------------

EDITOR'S NOTE: I cannot tell if this was posted by a sales rep or an actual user. If you're going to cite software, you should be a user - please tell us about your experience with it as opposed to simply stating attributes. Thanks!

posted 29 December 1999 10:34 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andy Bassett:
I can see the sense in getting as much of your documentation loaded onto a central server somewhere, and distributing by E Mail. I also have good experience of spreading the message through company Intranets. But can anybody educate me of other advantages from proprietry software.

---

Personally, I tend to recommend doing your own when possible. But - let's say you're looking at an APQP solution (control of documents alone is really not a very complex issue). It is complex enough that it often makes the most sense to buy a structured software solution.

In addition, if you look at a company like Motorola, there are a lot more issues than in a 10 person shop.

Depends upon a lot of factors.

posted 02 February 2000 05:17 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Merrion:
Just wanted to let you know more about MQ1 by CEBOS.

---

Has anyone actually used this software???? This is the second attribute post.

posted 09 February 2000 11:01 AM               

In other words, you type in PFD, and PFMEA, PCP appropriate field are filled in?

Is your enginnering on-site or remote?

posted 11 February 2000 07:25 PM              

We went from ISO to QS 9000 in March of 99. Cebos was a definite benefit.

We are a foundry with 3 sites and approximately 185 employees.

Cebos is a smallish company located in Detroit. There are not a lot of users yet (my guess is around 50). Their focus is on automotive manufacturing.

The founder of the company is a quality consultant who couldnât find software to support QS, so he decide to create it. The thing I appreciate the most is their apparoach. Cebos stands for Continuously Improving Business Operating Software. It is a Business System which results in Quality, not a software package that prints tons of compliance paperwork (although it can do that too).

Support is excellent. Real people answer the phone and donât hang up until the problem is fixed.

Since we bought it, there have been 2 major upgrades. A new client server version is
coming soon.

posted 15 February 2000 05:12 AM               

If you are working in an FDA regulated industry, any paperless system will have to be compliant with the title 21 of the CFR part 11.

This is the FDA's section on electronic records and signatures. It has caused quite a lot of consternation among pharmaceutical and medical device companies with its requirements.

In my company (Johnson & Johnson Consumer Products), we have paper forms that are routed manually via a sign-off sheet when changes are requested. Managing all of the forms, their changes, and keeping current ones on the floor consume many resources (approximately 7 full time people to manage documentation for 500 workers). We are aggressively trying to achieve some level of paperless system for better compliance. Forms are used to record inspection data taken off the floor and for finished product release.

Part 11 is divided into roughly two parts: electronic records and electronic signatures. For electronic records, data integrity must be assured with restricted access and an audit trail if the original data is changed. Electronic signatures encompass electronic records but includes a requirement that the signature be 'authentic'.

In the current interpretation of part 11, standard email does not comply with electronic signatures since email can be forged. Most Word documents do not comply with records since MS Word does not generate an audit trail when the document is changed. Passwords many help assure data integrity meeting electronic record requirements, but does not guarentee author identification like a retina scan or thumbprint, called biometric identification.

Depending on your level of complexity and the size of your budget, part 11 compliance can be achieved. Penop Inc. (http://www.penop.com/) has developed a set of OLE objects that will permit you to embed a true electronic signature in a Word document or Adobe pdf file.

Probably the best system for right now is some kind of hybrid. If data is entered into a computer, say an SPC system or Access database, and an inspection form generated automatically, then this can be manually signed skirting the electronic signature ruling. You would still have to meet the electronic record requirements, however. This has been done for sterile water systems where a PLC dumps raw data on temperature for example into a file every minute or so and an inspection record is generated from a validated program at the end of the shift with the average, maximum, and minimum requirements.

posted 18 February 2000 11:32 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura M:
Are all the APQP doucments linked?

In other words, you type in PFD, and PFMEA, PCP appropriate field are filled in?

Is your enginnering on-site or remote?

Is their a job instruction feature?

---

Sorry for the delay in responding. We have approximately 80 employees at one location. Our engineering is definitely on-site, it's in the middle of the shop.

Yes, PFD/PFMEA/PCP are all linked. For a given part (we do not have assemblies, but there is support for that as well, you would have to talk to Cebos) you enter a process flow with your own predefined processes. FMEA entries are related to processes and can be further specified as applying to all parts with that process, one part only, or all parts in product family. So work done on reducing RPNs can apply to a large number of individual FMEAs. You can then use this information to add characteristics, operator instructions, visual aids, and reaction plans to individual part control plans. For one of our home-grown modifications, I was able to use the Specifications field in the control plan to print on a packing list for outsourced processes.

I am looking forward to having SPC software (WinSPC) integrated into this package as they are planning now.

posted 23 March 2000 09:35 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laura M:
I had looked at System9000 about 4 years back. Does anyone know if that survived? It didn't look that bad, but was too much $$$.

---

Laura

I think I looked at this too. Try this link
http://www.systemcorp.com

The company is Systemcorp in Montreal. They seem to have a new product called Process Components 98. It seems ISO based, with no QS 9000 add ons.

I recall a QS 9000 version about 4 years ago offered in association with ASQC. It seems to have vanished from their web site.

I also have had no luck with Powerway. Several years ago I took our IT guy to a trade show with the express purpose of buying the APQP module of Powerway.

It took 20 minutes to tear them away from the golf games, tee shirts, free draws, business card collection, and general sales fluffery.

It then turned out that no one really knew how to run the demo. They did find someone in the booth who would try. Two crashes later we walked away.

Now in all fairness, that was a while ago and the APQP product had just come out. It sure looks good on their web site...but as always, buyer beware.

Cheers

posted 26 March 2000 06:51 PM               

I use MS Outlook as a database for Documents (Archive Log, Controlled Doc Distribution, External Document Log, Internal Documents Log, Records Log), for Personel and Training records, for Corrective Action tracking (Non-Conformance reports and Process Improvement Notices (PIN's) which are my version of CAR's, and to maintain Supplier Records.
I also use Outlook public calendar to control the Internal Review schedule and assign tasks to my review team.

Because the company is on an MS Exchange messaging backbone I use the Public Folders to distribute this database, but it could work equally well for one person to control the database, you would just need to distrubute the information by email.
Outlook is a great freeform database. You simply create a new form based on one of the built-in forms. The new form then inherits the capabilities of the original. For example, I based the PIN system on the Outlook Task system. I created a new Public Folder containing task items. Then created a new form based on the task form. I used a few standard elements of the original form, the subject, created date, owner, priority, due date, status, % complete, completed date, and the message field. By draging the fields from the field chooser to a new page, rearranging and renaming them and then hiding the original page I had an instant new PIN database. The PIN system then tracks the progress of the PIN, and flags when it is over due. You can also assign the PIN to other people on the network for action and receive reports when it is completed (all properties of the original Task system.

Another other way of doing things is to create new fields that are specifically what you want, eg a distribution method for the Document Control system. This is much much simpler in Outlook than traditional databases and much easier to make changes later. For example, there are no limits for field sizes (single and double precision and all tha rubbish), the forms are automatically kept independant from the data.

A good book is (without wanting to fill Bill's pockets even more) "Building Applications with MS Outlook 98" from MS Press.

Now can anyone with more Outlook knowledge help me? I can't get outlook to start up in a Public Folder. I try to follow what it says in Help but I keep getting invalid switch errors. Any ideas?

posted 26 April 2000 01:41 PM               

Way back up there like George >>> Word w/Visio's flowcharting software. Works great, but it depends upon the size of your company. We are 200 at this facility. We recently opened up facilities in Ireland and China and they took the system which I designed and used them as a base for development in those facilities (much smaller in number - personnel).

Flowcharting is highly recommended by users and even auditors. Visio is the best I've used and their technical support, updates, information is great and easy to come by. Flowcharts are user friendly. Before discovering Visio, our entire system was text-based (MS Word) and people HATED it. (Not to mention excessively verbose.) Flowcharting forces you to be succinct (preventing audit traps) and it has worked for us since 1995.

posted 09 May 2000 09:40 AM               

I used it at a previous company about 1 year ago. From a QA end user stand point, I can tell you that I pretty much liked it.

But I can also tell you that it gave my IT/MIS guy fits. He was always having trouble with it and not having much luck with IT support.

If it was up and running - from my point it was very good. But down times were killers and probably took 10 years off my MIS's life.

posted 10 May 2000 07:33 AM               

I purchased the Gauge Management Module (gage to USA persons!)and wished I had not.

The support I received in the UK is non-existent. As an example, it will only print reports if you system is configured to the American date format. Not very good over here!

When I questioned this with PowerWay I was first told that there was no problem. When i persisted I was told there may be a problem and that they were looking into it.
Finally, I pinned them down and was advised that they had received several complaints and a fix was only two weeks away (this was January this year)
I still have had no fix despite trying, and the cheeky sods even tried to sell me the SPC module.

posted 14 June 2000 11:11 PM               

The program integrates into Word, Excel, Powerpoint, but you can use it to create pdf files from any program by printing to the acrobat 'printer' the program creates.

posted 15 June 2000 11:55 AM               

What would the specialised package do that I canât with just access to a server?

This is as far as my experience and imagination stretches on the subject. Maybe, thereâs more to it. Iâd like to hear just what a system should have or what facilities are available that could make a better system than what I have described. I just donât have an idea. In fact, my only ideas are; 1) that the more a system is capable of delivering, the more difficult and time consuming it is to use. 2) people tend to make easy things complicated.

What about the DMS on the web? Have you seen it? Has anyone else? What is practicable? Is the answer your PDF adobe system? Does the fact that the information is on a simple, standard package make a difference when it uploads? How do the costs balance out; having and maintaining your own server versus buying time on line?

I could find out by trying it out but I have a limited parcel of webspace available so it might be a waste of time. Also, it pays to get input first, from people who have done some work in the area.

posted 15 June 2000 11:26 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by John C:
I hadnât seen this discussion before today so I went back over it and came across a case where some guy had told how he was using an everyday word processor and graphic package and it seemed ok for him. You were about to expand on the subject when Marc jumped on him and mauled the poor guy to death so weâll never really know what the guy was trying to say to us and you didnât pursue the subject.

---

By the way - I'm always around....

In the mean time, I will state my position. Documentation should be as simple as the business allows. If you have 10 people and Excel and Word (or a cheap word processor and a cheap spreadsheet) that's all you need. If you want to do flow charts and don't have powerpoint, there are several cheap flow charting programs available including SmartDraw ( http://www.smartdraw.com/ ) if you're a windows person. If you're a large company, all you need is Word and Excel and a savvy IS person to set priorities in directories. You do not need acrobat unless you:

1. Want to get fancy
or
2. You don't want to pay for everyone in the company to have a copy of MS Office.

I do not believe in canned software. If you need a database, Filemaker or Access are fine.

If you have a developed intranet and web, you might want to put your files on it - but that's typically more expense. The tradeoff is it's easier for most people to use a web interface - I don't find navigating and remembering directories difficult but many people say that's too technical.

Even if your company has 40,000 employees around the world - as long as you have a connective intranet you can have the documents as READ ONLY in a protected directory on 1 server.

I in no way promote expensive and/or specialized software solutions. I take each client and evaluate:

What programs do they have?
How many employees?
Locations?
All connected by intranet?
Training and ease of use client is seeking?
Money to spend?
Programmers in-house and/or experience outsourcing (such as Oracle in large companies which want to leverage info from that)?
Degree of ERP/database integration required (large companies).
Any existing systems to be integrated?

Some companies want Powerway - Harley did. I recommended against it. Some companies write a control database in access. I push a simple spreadsheet for smaller companies - example in the pdf_files directory is doc_matrix.pdf if I remember correctly. A spread sheet is definitely not expensive or specialized.

John, how you want to control documents is a function of how fancy you want to get. As much as I disdain Microsoft, if you have Word, Excel, Access and Powerpoint - there's not a thing else you need.

On the other hand, let's go beyond document control. Let's go beyond ISO to QS.

If you want to expand the situation to include / address MT&E control, control plan / FMEA / Nonconformance-Corrective Action systems software - well, you can do most of this in-house or outsource it but canned software is typically the cheapest way to go. But again, this is all very company specific. On page 2 of this thread I believe Kate Kliebhan gave a glowing recommendation for MQ1. I like the customization features she describes, thought I have never used it. A big drawback to 99% of canned software is that it is just that - canned. You can't tailor it to your company.

Now - if you consider this reply as jumping on you and mauling you - that's life. I addressed the question at hand. The only person I know I seriously pissed off here (mauled) was the fellow who, in another thread, asked about consultants without even considering me. Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut, but I said what I did and stand behind it. If you're considering hiring a consultant and don't want to consider me then discuss it in a NG or person to person - not on my forums. Yes - I took it as an insult and I raised hell. Just because this site is free doesn't give license to insult me. On the other hand, I do not mind consultants responding to such inqueries. A number of people here are consultants - if you (they) smell food, go for it. I do.