posted 06 December 2000 06:45 PM               

Create your own standard set of symbols if need be, because there is simply no consistency in the usage of symbols.

posted 06 December 2000 09:13 PM               

On the other hand, I typically use Powerpoint for flow charts. Normally I simply don't need all the bells and whistles Smartdraw has. PP has everything you need as well.

posted 07 December 2000 11:11 AM               

> I tend to keep things simple. But i must boast I have gotten better, and on a
> rare occassion have linked photos and instruction video (AVI) to the visio
> charts and other procedure/form references.
My only comment here is to say make sure you do not end up 'assuming' that your client will have the same talent in-house to maintain the system links, etc. after you're gone. This often becomes an knowledge issue.

As an example -- I have kept this web site simple. Oh, I have played with videos and sounds but found that the simple, no-frames, no-frills html allows just about everyone access. I can put in shockwave baubles and such but as complexity increases so does maintenance time/knowledge requirements -- not to mention you start screening certain people out who simply don't want to have to install shockwave to view the site. This said, the main issue as it regards this topic is that simplicity can save a bundle in maintenance and knowledge costs. Powerpoint is in all the office packages, I think, except maybe the personal edition or whatever they call it while Visio is an extra cost. Powerpoint is simple to use.

> I got the VISIO demo for $1.55 S/H.
The hook. What does the full version cost?

> ...do you know if a flow chart from smartdraw get saved into...
Smartdraw imports visio files (individually or BATCH) but doesn't export them. It does export about everything else - you can export directly as pdf, as bitmap, as Micrografix, as a windows meta file --- there are about 10 or more (never really counted, but there's a bunch) export formats.

As I say, I typically only use powerpoint as it does what I need. In my opinion, too many people set up overly complex systems of links and such. I've ended up helping several companies recover after a complex system was devised by another consultant that were maintenance nightmares.

And it's not always consultants. One client was told by their registrar (in the interview prior to the company hiring the registrar) that they had to have a document control software package as a minimum to comply with ISO 9001. Of course, Visio was 'sanctioned' by the registrar for process/systems maps.

I go on here about this issue because I think too many companies make their systems (especially document related systems) overly complex and many, early on, are talked into complex systems with great talk about 'software solutions' which are sold as a 'golden bullet' solution to things like document control.

posted 07 December 2000 04:20 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Marc Smith:
>
> I got the VISIO demo for $1.55 S/H.
The hook. What does the full version cost?
.

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Full version is $120-$150 I think - waiting for my 60 days to expire! I'm not sold on it yet, but with several clients using it, it'll pay for itself!

posted 07 December 2000 05:38 PM               

I don't use it for detailed process flows (I use MPACT) but as a down and dirty method it works fine.

posted 11 December 2000 05:18 PM               

The new Quality magazine just came in with an article on flowcharting in which they're saying that ISO9001:2000 requires that business processes be flowcharted. I can understand it being desireable, but required?

I'm still working off the DIS version and don't see the word 'flowchart' anywhere. What's the deal here? Are they actually saying that in their opinion flowcharts are the only reasonable way to go, or are they saying that I've got to go back through a ton of procedures and flowchart them? That's a problem in a company culture that gets cross-eyed when a flowchart has more that six elements in it.

I appreciate any information that might help me understand the actual requirements.

Thanks.

posted 11 December 2000 06:23 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Alf Gulford:

....new Quality magazine just came in with an article on flowcharting in which they're saying that ISO9001:2000 requires that business processes be flowcharted. I can understand it being desireable, but required?

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posted 10 February 2001 03:10 PM               

As for the Standard demanding flowcharts, well, I wouldn't go that far, but here is a simple interpretation.

What we have done is map a one page flowchart of our processes. This does not inlcude minor processes but that doesn't make it dis-jointed either - just clearer. The processes then show the end user the inter-relationship between each of our processes. Our Auditor was quite accepting of this method.

On the other hand you may also want to consider having a flow chart within your current procedures, or completely changing the text to a flow chart. If so, ensure that you include links to other processes. This is also a good way to ensure that you cover the inter-relationship between processes.

In my opinion, just concentrate on your end user. What do they want or need to get the job done? Sometimes we get so focussed on 'the Standard' that we seem to forget about who we were creating the documents for in the first place.