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AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
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AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures
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AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures - Page 2


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as9100 revision d (2016), procedures (general), required procedures
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  Post Number #9  
Old 29th August 2017, 11:39 PM
Big Jim

 
 
Total Posts: 2,828
Re: AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

Let me you in a little secret: Sometimes, CB auditors bluff. They will tell you something they know is not supported in any standard requirement, i.e., there is no "shall" to defend their position, but they hope you will comply with their wishes, because it makes THEM feel better. I think it is abundantly clear through the IAQG FAQ that the "dogma" of a mandatory documented procedure no longer exists. So, you can call the auditor's bluff and she will fold, provided you can demonstrate adequate control in the absence of a documented procedure.

We have to remember that a system has to work for the organization and it's customers. Auditors likes, dislikes and opinions should never be the driving force for process engineering.
I agree generally with this, especially because there was a time when it was generally misunderstood the processes and procedures were the same thing or nearly the same thing.

Don't get the impression that AS9100D fully gets away from documented procedures completely though, and I'm sure that is not what you meant.

Remember that 9100D requires "the organization's nonconformity control processes shall be maintained as documented information Including the provision for . . . " (8.7), and "the organization shall maintain documented information that defines the nonconformity and corrective action management process" (10.2.2).

Also remember that both ISO 9001:2015 and AS9100D says,"the organization's quality management system shall include . . . documented information determined by the organization as being necessary for the effectiveness of the quality management system" (7.5.1b)

In short, AS9100D still calls for a documented procedure for two topics and both ISO 9001:2015 and AS9100C require that you maintain documented information (a written document, including documented procedures) that your organization determines they need.

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  Post Number #10  
Old 30th August 2017, 10:42 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,946
Re: AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Big Jim View Post

Don't get the impression that AS9100D fully gets away from documented procedures completely though, and I'm sure that is not what you meant
I think the FAQ document is pretty clear, but I agree with you that, in the real world, taking into account the context of an aviation, space and defense organization implementing AS9100, it would be unrealistic for large portions of their QMS not to be documented. In this day and age, management by tribal knowledge is extremely risky and, pun intended, an undocumented system "would not fly".
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  Post Number #11  
Old 13th October 2017, 08:16 AM
Deburr

 
 
Total Posts: 7
Re: AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Mike S. View Post

Technically, there are no longer requirements for specific procedures, records, or a quality manual. But… “documented information” and “retained documented information” is required (4.4.2). So.....

Required documented information includes 4.3 QMS Scope, 4.4.2 interested parties and processes with sequence and interactions and responsibilities, 5.2.2 quality policy, 6.2.1 quality objectives, 8.7.1 nonconformity control process, 10.2.1 CA process.

A ton of records…I mean retained documented information” are also required.
Mike, I am just starting my conversion from C to D. What are your thoughts on Annex A.4 Risk Based Thinking, paragraph 7 "...a formal process to manage operational risks is required in clause 8.1.1."? Would that be an additional new required documentation?

Thanks, Steve
  Post Number #12  
Old 13th October 2017, 09:03 AM
Big Jim

 
 
Total Posts: 2,828
Re: AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Deburr View Post

Mike, I am just starting my conversion from C to D. What are your thoughts on Annex A.4 Risk Based Thinking, paragraph 7 "...a formal process to manage operational risks is required in clause 8.1.1."? Would that be an additional new required documentation?

Thanks, Steve
I'm not Mike, but I do have a couple of comments.

Although the appendix mentions "formal method", 8.1.1 doesn't.

Formal doesn't mean documented. Nothing in 8.1.1 requires documented information.

Of further note, 8.1.1 a-e is an "as appropriate" list, not a mandatory list.

Personally, I prefer the word "established" or even "method" over the word "formal" for this application. Basically you need a method to identify and deal with operational risk. You way wish to document it it you want, our you may simply have a method in you mind for how it is done.
  Post Number #13  
Old 13th October 2017, 12:32 PM
Mike S.

 
 
Total Posts: 2,155
Re: AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Deburr View Post

Mike, I am just starting my conversion from C to D. What are your thoughts on Annex A.4 Risk Based Thinking, paragraph 7 "...a formal process to manage operational risks is required in clause 8.1.1."? Would that be an additional new required documentation?

Thanks, Steve
The requirement says "The organization shall plan, implement, and control a process for managing operational risks to the achievement
of applicable requirements, which includes as appropriate to the organization and the products and services:"


No documentation is explicitly required, but I have a hard time thinking of how I would do this effectively with no documentation. Perhaps in a very small, highly disciplined company, but not in any I have been a part of. We have a written risk management procedure and associated records.
  Post Number #14  
Old 14th October 2017, 10:20 AM
BLKPAR

 
 
Total Posts: 2
Re: AS9100:2016 (Rev. D) Required Procedures

Well said to all. It is frustrating to see so many companies that over document their system and add lots of "fluff" to attempt to please the auditor or because they are paranoid they will miss something. This quite often alienates the rest of the employees from their system because it appears too complicated and cumbersome.

Last edited by BLKPAR; 14th October 2017 at 10:31 AM. Reason: Did not finish my thought
Thanks to BLKPAR for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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