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Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding - Page 3

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as9120 - aerospace qms requirements for distributors, customer specific requirements (csr)
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  Post Number #17  
Old 9th August 2018, 03:46 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 9,118
Lightbulb Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by doctall41 View Post

Yes, we have people involved in the estimating process who have this same expertise. We just don't use the form for that part of the process. We probably should, but don't. The questions are getting asked and answered, but not documented on a form.
Might I suggest that you formalize the use at the RFQ stage? THAT's your record! Your auditor is not understanding that it's NOT "Contract Review" any more. That's the waaaay old standard which, as we know, had to be changed to "Review of Requirements, blah, blah, blah"... for many reasons.

In practical terms, it's too late to be answering "no" to many of those items once the contract has been awarded to you. ISO now recognizes that and the terminology was changed.
Thanks to AndyN for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #18  
Old 9th August 2018, 03:56 PM
doctall41

 
 
Total Posts: 30
Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AndyN View Post

Might I suggest that you formalize the use at the RFQ stage? THAT's your record! Your auditor is not understanding that it's NOT "Contract Review" any more. That's the waaaay old standard which, as we know, had to be changed to "Review of Requirements, blah, blah, blah"... for many reasons.

In practical terms, it's too late to be answering "no" to many of those items once the contract has been awarded to you. ISO now recognizes that and the terminology was changed.
I agree that by the time you receive the contract, it's too late to answer NO to any of the questions. BUT,
AS9100D
8.2.3.1e covers "contract or order requirements differing from those previously expressed";
and later down the page talks again about "ensuring that contract or order requirements differing from those previously defined are resolved"

I think the best method would be to do it during estimating, then follow up upon receipt of contract to see if there are any differences.

Thanks for your input!
  Post Number #19  
Old 9th August 2018, 04:03 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 9,118
Lightbulb Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by doctall41 View Post

I agree that by the time you receive the contract, it's too late to answer NO to any of the questions. BUT,
AS9100D
8.2.3.1e covers "contract or order requirements differing from those previously expressed";
and later down the page talks again about "ensuring that contract or order requirements differing from those previously defined are resolved"

I think the best method would be to do it during estimating, then follow up upon receipt of contract to see if there are any differences.

Thanks for your input!
Correct, and that was added, because the revision of the part print, quantity or delivery requirements might change. That's the place to catch those and resolve them. You may find that a tweak to your (excellent) form, which identifies the items reviewed at quoting and those at order entry with a sign off is a much more effective method. It burns me when CB auditors make throw away comments (like in the OP's case), when often, organizations have a perfectly good system in place... and they didn't see it that way and you don't have to create anything extra!
  Post Number #20  
Old 9th August 2018, 04:16 PM
doctall41

 
 
Total Posts: 30
Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AndyN View Post

Correct, and that was added, because the revision of the part print, quantity or delivery requirements might change. That's the place to catch those and resolve them. You may find that a tweak to your (excellent) form, which identifies the items reviewed at quoting and those at order entry with a sign off is a much more effective method.
Andy, after reading your comments and giving it some thought apart from the CB auditor and her comments, I see where you are exactly right. I should be using a revision of this form during the RFQ process, then follow up upon receipt of order with final review. Thanks for opening my eyes. Doctall41
Thanks to doctall41 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #21  
Old 9th August 2018, 04:19 PM
doctall41

 
 
Total Posts: 30
Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by QualityStandardsGirl View Post

She said that the best way to provide objective evidence for the record of the review and acceptance of requirements is to have the salesperson check off the requirements on the purchase order prior to scanning it into our system.
By the way, we were told the same thing, "check off the requirements on the Purchase order" last year. This year, we had two auditors, one asked why there were check marks all over the PO, the other said "that's what I suggested that they do in order to verify that they had reviewed it".
Thanks to doctall41 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #22  
Old 9th August 2018, 04:24 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 9,118
Thumbs up Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by doctall41 View Post

Andy, after reading your comments and giving it some thought apart from the CB auditor and her comments, I see where you are exactly right. I should be using a revision of this form during the RFQ process, then follow up upon receipt of order with final review. Thanks for opening my eyes. Doctall41
Awesome! Thank YOU! This is at the heart of why the Cove exists!
  Post Number #23  
Old 9th August 2018, 05:31 PM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 1,463
Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

The problem with trying to replicate "contract review" at the RFQ stage is that there isn't the time or resources to do so given that most RFQs never see the order stage. In our case, every part requires a design review because what you draw in CAD and what we can actually stamp are two different things. So we try to do that between the RFQ and order acceptance phase. Even then, it's a challenge. Better customers get us in on the design phase, so that the RFQ is just a formality.
  Post Number #24  
Old 19th September 2018, 12:27 AM
CRS2018

 
 
Total Posts: 1
Re: Customer Requirements - AS9120B Audit Finding

We had the same finding last year. Our resolution was to list the customer requirements (spelled out by clause, spec, etc) that were part of the contract & reviewed on the actual order acknowledgement. That PDF file is then sent to the customer via email. If we do not comply with something, take exception, etc. it is noted after that particular clause/spec. If the exception not acceptable to the customer, they need to inform us right away & order is placed on hold until resolution.
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