The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums
Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the differences?
Please read this thread...
Software update
Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the differences?
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the differences? - Page 2

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Courtesy Quick Links


Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support:

Jennifer Kirley's
Conway Business Services


Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC



International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

AIAG - Automotive Industry Action Group

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Organization for Standardization - ISO Standards and Information

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags
definitions, procedures (general), instructions (general), differences (general)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #9  
Old 17th April 2008, 03:34 AM
Umang Vidyarthi

 
 
Total Posts: 874
Yin Yang Re: Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the difference

According to my understanding - 'Procedure' is a specified series of action, to be executed in the same manner, to obtain the same result under the same condition.

In other words, 'Procedure' is a sequence of processes, when undertaken in the laid down sequence, produces the described result.

The work instruction, is a prescribed and proscribed Instruction, combining command and explanation, for each and individual process in the 'Procedure'.

Umang

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #10  
Old 17th April 2008, 07:26 AM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,217
Re: Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the difference

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Big Jim View Post

In ISO 9001:2000 there are only six required procedures. They are defined in 4.2.3, 4.2.4, 8.2.2, 8.3, 8.5.2, and 8.5.3.

It doesn't really matter if these six are call procedures, although it would certainly be more "auditor friendly".

The other "procedures" and/or "work instructions" can be called anything you like, and documentation of them is optional as long as you meet the requirements of 4.2.1d "The quality management system shall include documents needed by the organization to ensure the effective planning, operation and control of its processes . . . "
The required six may also be called something other than "procedure." It's the substance that's important.
  Post Number #11  
Old 17th April 2008, 08:26 AM
CalRich's Avatar
CalRich

 
 
Total Posts: 126
Re: Procedure vs. Instruction

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Caster View Post


Staff people need only broad direction because they are so smart (procedure)

Factory pukes need detailed work instructions because...well just because

Never mind that the factory guy can run a million dollar CNC lathe, while the director of operations can't book a meeting in Outlook
Biting remarks, but it's very realistic. Our QA guys have had problems trying to make work instructions for the ladies in Purchasing, for example. Many staff people (including myself) don't have any procedure or work instruction on how to do anything. I'm winging it every day!

Big Jim noted about documents (procedures or instructions) being "auditor friendly". We recently had an assessor come to pre-assess a testing lab for ISO 17025 compliance. He made some comment about the ease finding compliance to a particular requirement in documents. Our documents are a little confusing to me since we have made them at separate times to be easy for the 9001 auditor, then the 17025 auditor, then other documents easy for product certification bodies. It seems fine to do this, but wouldn't it be better to make it easier for the company? It's our QMS... so when someone asks how we control documents, we just go to our document control procedure, no matter if the requirement is in 4.2.3, 4.3, or 19.5487!

(I think I'm just letting off steam... maybe I was off topic)
  Post Number #12  
Old 17th April 2008, 09:49 AM
goodnede

 
 
Total Posts: 44
Re: Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the difference

I have always been taught a procedure says "what we do". A work instruction says "how we do it". My company has lots of WI's that I personally do not think are true WI's. If for someone reason I was the only person available to receive a "hot" part in or my boss the VP of Quality, we should be able to have WI that showed us how to do that. A WI is created so that anyone should be able to accomplish a task. If it says you enter in the information into the "electronic database" it should tell you how you enter that information and provide step by step. It also provides an approved method of operation that everyone has to follow and do things the same way preventing a person being told 3 different ways to do something by 3 different people.
  Post Number #13  
Old 17th April 2008, 09:53 AM
SAGHIR AHMED

 
 
Total Posts: 8
Re: Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the difference

Good question
  Post Number #14  
Old 17th April 2008, 10:20 AM
SAGHIR AHMED

 
 
Total Posts: 8
Re: Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the difference

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

The required six may also be called something other than "procedure." It's the substance that's important.
I WILL 2ND THE BELOW REMARKS WHICH IS THE ESSENCE OF CLARIFICATION.

a procedure says "what we do". A work instruction says "how we do it
  Post Number #15  
Old 17th April 2008, 10:31 AM
BadgerMan's Avatar
BadgerMan

 
 
Total Posts: 698
Re: Procedure vs. Instruction

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Caster View Post


There is also a nasty stink of elitism in these words - I hate 'em

Staff people need only broad direction because they are so smart (procedure)

Factory pukes need detailed work instructions because...well just because

Never mind that the factory guy can run a million dollar CNC lathe, while the director of operations can't book a meeting in Outlook

And don't get me started on policies.....what a waste of paper...just do it already

We need just enough documentation to get the job done, the names I like are method or technique, a bit more neutral.
“Interesting” comments………

When I look at our index of QMS documents, the functional areas with the greatest number of work instructions are design/development, configuration management, customer service, purchasing, and contracts administration.

Frankly, the value of a CNC lathe is a pittance compared to the risk of financial penalty for violating some FAA regulation or for ignoring an export rule due to the lack of adequate work instructions for our “elite” staff employees. Furthermore, repeated failure to abide by certain regulations could result in an extended stay at a federal penitentiary for many of our “elite” staff employees, myself included. As a result, we are swimming in work instructions up here in our ivory tower.

You go ahead and refer to them by whatever name makes you feel good. I don’t give a rat's ass what they are called or who they pertain to as long as they are effective.
Thanks to BadgerMan for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #16  
Old 17th April 2008, 10:32 AM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,217
Re: Procedure vs. Instruction - What constitutes a procedure? What are the difference

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by SAGHIR AHMED View Post



I WILL 2ND THE BELOW REMARKS WHICH IS THE ESSENCE OF CLARIFICATION.

a procedure says "what we do". A work instruction says "how we do it
A procedure says what we do. A work instruction says what we do. The "what we do and how we do it" dichotomy has never made any sense to me. A written procedure, if it describes what must be done, is a form of instructions. A work instruction, if it describes the details of operating a process, is a form of procedure.

What we call these things has no bearing whatsoever on their utility.

Last edited by Jim Wynne; 17th April 2008 at 06:37 PM.
Thank You to Jim Wynne for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >

Bookmarks


Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Procedure vs. Work Instruction (WI) - What is the difference? eramanath Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 74 13th May 2016 03:13 PM
Can a WI (Work Instruction) be alone without depending on a Procedure? QAMTY ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5 30th September 2011 05:02 AM
Procedure vs. Working Instruction (WI) - The differences justincheu Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations 17 15th July 2010 01:13 PM
What is the difference between a Procedure and a Work Instruction? abcauto ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2 15th July 2010 07:29 AM
How do you reference a WI (Work Instruction) to a procedure? mickeld - 2005 Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 16 18th June 2004 10:07 AM



The time now is 02:48 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



Misc. Internal Links


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"