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How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
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How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?
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Some Related Topic Tags
work instructions (wi), definitions, procedures (general), processes (general), differences (general)
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  Post Number #17  
Old 25th July 2007, 04:25 PM
MichelleD's Avatar
MichelleD

 
 
Total Posts: 43
Re: How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?

OK, I have a question.... (I usually do)

I'm at my cubicle looking around and I have 7 (i just counted) three ring binders full of procedures. How do you keep the procedure writing from exploding into a huge mess where you can't find anything. I'm new at this company and I will say that they have documented everything. And I mean everything. But I need to turn the procedures and WI into something mangeable.

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  Post Number #18  
Old 25th July 2007, 04:48 PM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor

 
 
Total Posts: 15,219
Re: How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by MichelleD View Post

OK, I have a question.... (I usually do)

I'm at my cubicle looking around and I have 7 (i just counted) three ring binders full of procedures. How do you keep the procedure writing from exploding into a huge mess where you can't find anything. I'm new at this company and I will say that they have documented everything. And I mean everything. But I need to turn the procedures and WI into something mangeable.

Hello Michelle,

Do you have the liberty to "clean some house?"

I would start by taking inventory. You should have this already as part of your document control system. Then sort all these documents by process. Sit down with each Process Owner and decide what documents truly add value and really support each process. Get rid of the rest. Or, to be on the safe side, locate them in a historical file. If you have a network, put the documents on the network so that they are accessible to anyone who needs this information. Remember, a hard drive is cheaper than a filing cabinet. Lastly, the question that needs to be asked during document assessment is: What information do our people need to be SAFE, EFFECTIVE, and EFFICIENT in what they do?

Hope this helps. You'll hear from our Fellow Covers soon. Trust me....

Stijloor.
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  Post Number #19  
Old 25th July 2007, 05:03 PM
MichelleD's Avatar
MichelleD

 
 
Total Posts: 43
Re: How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Stijloor View Post


Do you have the liberty to "clean some house?"
I have almost too much liberty. I've basically been given the "go do" to stablize the ISO System. I thought my previous company had alot of procedures but whew! It makes your head spin just trying to read these. I think that's alot of the problem. They've written procedures for the sake of writing procedures. Not a good thing to do. And as of right now, the ISO system was set up to be managed by the ISO Coordinator and only the ISO Coordinator so when she left, it fell apart. I know that the ISO Coordinator/Lead Audit/Management Rep (whatever you want to call it) has approval on the level 2 documents but at most companies do they usually also sign off on the work instruction level?
  Post Number #20  
Old 25th July 2007, 05:08 PM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor

 
 
Total Posts: 15,219
Re: How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by MichelleD View Post

I have almost too much liberty. I've basically been given the "go do" to stablize the ISO System. I thought my previous company had alot of procedures but whew! It makes your head spin just trying to read these. I think that's alot of the problem. They've written procedures for the sake of writing procedures. Not a good thing to do. And as of right now, the ISO system was set up to be managed by the ISO Coordinator and only the ISO Coordinator so when she left, it fell apart. I know that the ISO Coordinator/Lead Audit/Management Rep (whatever you want to call it) has approval on the level 2 documents but at most companies do they usually also sign off on the work instruction level?
Hello Michelle,

The Process Owner should be the person reviewing and approving any document that applies to his/her process. If you want to do some coaching and hand-holding, that's fine. But the moment you take it upon yourself to take responsibility, you become an "ISO Victim." I've met too many in mental institutions...(The ISO Ward) No, just kidding.

Stijloor.
Thank You to Stijloor for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #21  
Old 25th July 2007, 07:37 PM
Gary E MacLean's Avatar
Gary E MacLean

 
 
Total Posts: 86
Re: How do you decide what is a process, procedure or work instruction?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

The commitment you refer to is generally captured in the quality policy; the QM should be more than that.
Of course the QM is more than that but it is certainly much more than the Quality Policy. The QM expresses Top Management's committment in ALL areas not just the few areas required to be covered as per clause 5.3. The QM expresses TM's committment to every single clause and requrement of the standard - one by one.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

Why two tiers here? What's the difference between three and four?
Slow down Jim, take it easy. I split that level up for many reasons. One of them is repeatedly expressed throughout this series of forums; that of having way too many documents. My level three consists of those work instructions (documents that provide specific HOW TO) that directly address an ISO requirement. My level four are those documents that you would like to have in your organization but are ones that ISO gives no direction for and has no guidance for. The registrar has no jurisdiction over the content of how you set up your coiling machine or how you distribute bonuses or how your safety committee meets and reports. These are not directly ISO subjects, thus they belong in a separate classification.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

They don't have to be audited?? How to you do part/process audits if you don't verify that the work instructions are being followed?
I suppose I should have been more clear. The level fours I refer to do not have to be audited by your registrar and generally will not even be reviewed. They do have to be audited according to your internal requirements. Since they do not address an ISO requirement they really can't be audited by the registrar. The registrar has no criteria with which to evaluate them with anyway. All the registrar can really do is audit the presence of a required instruction. Then the auditor can follow the operator as they conduct the activity but for the most part the auditor will be busy trying to audit the processes and related level three documents. I have successfully shaved many ten, 12 and 15 three ring notebook systems down to one binder using this rationale.


Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

I'd like to learn more about your rationale for the bifurcation.
Come on Jim, tell me you didn't use that word. Your messin' with me right? I covered the rationale for the 'bifurcation' in the previous discussion.


Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

I understand the need to control forms (usually tier 4 in a 4-tier system), but I don't see a need for controlling "unchangeable fact." If it's immutable, why does it need to be controlled?
Actually, the presence, the legibility, identifiability and distribution are every bit as important in the world of document control as is the content Jim. Immutable (if you must use those 'big kid' words) fact is fine but how it gets presented to the organization is very important and must be controlled.


Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

Quality manuals that are "nearly a re-hash of the standard" are mostly worthless beyond the requirement to have a quality manual; why have a potentially significant document that serves no useful purpose?
I hesitate to even admit it but I have worked with over 100 different organizations and have yet to see one of them put the QM to any use of any kind. Yes, in most cases, the QM is issued to fill a requirement. Like it or not that's what is happening in the real world. Even those organizations who do issue the facade QM will usually still pay attention to the level two and three documents though. That is where the meat of any system really is.


Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

The best quality systems I've seen are the ones where someone has set out to build an efficacious system, one in which the satisfaction of ISO requirements is a secondary consideration.
Jim, I hope you don't take offense but I truly hope you don't write your internal documents the way you write your Elsmar posts. I did experience a registrar noncompliance for an organization using the phrase "...all employees practice good stewardship of the customer's product..." or something like that. Nobody knew what 'stewardship' meant; nope, not a single employee. The pretty word did nothing but guarantee a noncompliance for this company. Maybe 'effective' would have been every bit as effective...you think?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jim Wynne View Post

but if you set out with banality and needless rigor aforethought, you'll wind up with a system that's banal and needlessly rigorous.
OK, I give up. Any takers on what Jim is talking about here?

Thanks for the very challenging critique of my post Jim. I just love this site - it makes us all think and try harder to understand what it is we are doing. I have probably gained more through my brief stint here on Elsmar than I have in the last half dozen seminars I have attended.
  Post Number #22  
Old 25th July 2007, 08:18 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 8,459
Let Me Help You Re: How do you decide what is a process, procedure or work instruction?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Gary E MacLean View Post

I have probably gained more through my brief stint here on Elsmar than I have in the last half dozen seminars I have attended.
Gary - come to ONE of mine...........
  Post Number #23  
Old 25th July 2007, 10:30 PM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,366
Re: How do you decide what is a Process, a Procedure or Work Instruction?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by MichelleD View Post

OK, I have a question.... (I usually do)

I'm at my cubicle looking around and I have 7 (i just counted) three ring binders full of procedures. How do you keep the procedure writing from exploding into a huge mess where you can't find anything. I'm new at this company and I will say that they have documented everything. And I mean everything. But I need to turn the procedures and WI into something mangeable.
You are on the right track.
Obsolete the ones that don't really say anything.
Obsolete the ones that don't seem important or beneficial.
Combine the ones that logically belong together.

Then take a breath and live with what is left for a few months. The rest should become obvious by then.
Thank You to Helmut Jilling for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #24  
Old 10th August 2007, 10:10 AM
Gary E MacLean's Avatar
Gary E MacLean

 
 
Total Posts: 86
Re: How do you decide what is a process, procedure or work instruction?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AndyN View Post

Gary - come to ONE of mine...........
Hey Andy, I just today noticed your invitation. Whatcha got comin' up? What do you do? Where do you do it? and so on. Send me a private email. i have a lot of clients who need help.
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