The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Courtesy Quick Links


Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support:

Jennifer Kirley's
Conway Business Services


Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC



International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

AIAG - Automotive Industry Action Group

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Organization for Standardization - ISO Standards and Information

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags
as9102 - aerospace first article inspection (fai), first article inspection (fai), forms and templates (general)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 11th November 2017, 08:57 AM
Orwell

 
 
Total Posts: 2
Please Help! AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

Hello everyone. I work as a Quality Manager for a small company in the heart of Europe. Our company is focused on production / assembly of stators. Our company has customers who's got specific requirement with necessary documentation (i.e. drawing, specs. etc). In some cases our customers deliver components, raw material, catalog parts and so on to our warehouse. We are ISO 9001:2008 certified company at this moment.

Our latest customer is German aerospace company, ISO 9001, ISO 14001, AS9100, REACH certified, a company that is many years in the business.

Our customer made a Purchase Order for 5 stator prototypes with different specs, and dimensions and they are interested in mutual cooperation and serial production. All prototypes were made according to the customer's drawing, all of them passed our internal quality check. We were never dealing with a company/customer from an aerospace area and I was surprised by a request to include, provide FAI report, which according to my knowledge consists of 3 forms. I've done research on my own this week about the FAI report, read many threads here at elsmar, googled it, watched few youtube videos but at this moment I'm still confused and need your help.

Below I will provide as much info as I can with my questions.

AS9102 Rev A Form 1 (XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx)
parts_list_for_112233.xls these are the 13 parts that are necessary for one stator (stator No. 112233), these are catalog parts. All these parts were sent to us by our customer.

1. First things first. Is this Detail FAI or Assembly FAI ? In the process of making a stator we use solder, we also crimp the cable/wire, apply coating etc. As I read here on the elsmar forum, these are modifications made to the catalog part(s) and therefor we cannot call it 'Assembly' and it must be a Detail FAI, am I right ?

2. In the AS9102 Rev A Form 2 (XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx), all the 13 parts goes in there(?) As you can see on the pic. vendor_manufacturer_cut.jpg our customer cut the Vendor/Manufacturer name of the part (on most of the parts actually). How am I supposed to provide "8. Special Process Supplier Code" and "10. Certificate of Conformance number" ? Only 1 item out of 13 came with the Certificate. Number "9. Customer Approval Verification" was pre-filled with "NA" by our customer who gave us these 3 forms.

3. Form 2 wants from us to provide even a process name, number, CoC etc. Let's say this process is called "soldering". We don't have a process name, number nor certificate for this process. How would you include this into the Form 2? Am I supposed to create internal process for soldering, write the process on an A4 and give it a special number? What about the certification for this process? I just don't understand ...

4. Form 3 (XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx)
Column “5 Char No.” in the drawing YYYY-0100-0100 there is “a”, “b” etc in the cirle, is this the so called bubble drawing ? Drawing was made in 1988. For example the high voltage test 1000 V 50 Hz, shall I draw a circle with number, I don't know, "5" next to this req. into the drawing? And then in the form 3 is it going to be "5 Char No." "5"?

Last question. Dimensional measurements. Our laborers measure each stator during and prior the finishing process with a Vernier caliper. We do not make any reports on the Dimensional measurements. Either the measurements correlate with the drawing and if not, then the stator is removed and recycled from the production process. We do not make any final dimensional measurements on the product. Final product is tested in a special machine (tester) for its characteristics, 26 measurements were done (statistical_summary.jpg). So what am I supposed to include in the Form 3?

All the documents, pictures, forms are in the attachement. XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx has red "?" question mark in each cell which I do not understand. Please, be aware of the fact that we are not AS9100 certified, this is our first contract with an aerospace company. Thank you
Attached Thumbnails
AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3-xxxx-0100-0100_112233_e_002-jpg   AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3-vendor_manufacturer_cut1-jpg   AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3-statistical_summary-jpg  
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before opening, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: docx XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx (43.2 KB, 75 views)
File Type: xlsx parts_list_for_112233.xlsx (11.0 KB, 46 views)

Last edited by Orwell; 11th November 2017 at 09:19 AM. Reason: typo

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 12th November 2017, 04:42 PM
mikeh54

 
 
Total Posts: 5
Re: AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

This is how I would do it
I would call it an assembly. List all of the component parts manufactured or purchased on Form 1
Form 2 would list all of the materials used in assembling. Lubes, sealants, glues. It looks like the Elmotherm Coating may fit that description. I believe functional testing/results also goes on Form 2.
Form 3 - You will need to measure and document the measurements for one part and you will need an accompanying bubble drawing or something to relate the drawing characteristic to the FAI entry. Like you suggested, pick a logical spot to start and put a 1 inside a circle, and work your way around until you run out of things to number. EVERY characteristic on the drawing, and any additional PO requirement, that applies to the part you are documenting has to have an entry on the FAI. This includes dimensions and any applicable drawing notes. You need to document the requirement and the actual for each characteristic. You'll learn to hate this in a real hurry.
Did they also ask for certifications?
Thanks to mikeh54 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #3  
Old 14th November 2017, 07:16 AM
dsanabria

 
 
Total Posts: 1,368
Re: AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Orwell View Post

Hello everyone. I work as a Quality Manager for a small company in the heart of Europe. Our company is focused on production / assembly of stators. Our company has customers who's got specific requirement with necessary documentation (i.e. drawing, specs. etc). In some cases our customers deliver components, raw material, catalog parts and so on to our warehouse. We are ISO 9001:2008 certified company at this moment.

Our latest customer is German aerospace company, ISO 9001, ISO 14001, AS9100, REACH certified, a company that is many years in the business.

Our customer made a Purchase Order for 5 stator prototypes with different specs, and dimensions and they are interested in mutual cooperation and serial production. All prototypes were made according to the customer's drawing, all of them passed our internal quality check. We were never dealing with a company/customer from an aerospace area and I was surprised by a request to include, provide FAI report, which according to my knowledge consists of 3 forms. I've done research on my own this week about the FAI report, read many threads here at elsmar, googled it, watched few youtube videos but at this moment I'm still confused and need your help.

Below I will provide as much info as I can with my questions.

AS9102 Rev A Form 1 (XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx)
parts_list_for_112233.xls these are the 13 parts that are necessary for one stator (stator No. 112233), these are catalog parts. All these parts were sent to us by our customer.

1. First things first. Is this Detail FAI or Assembly FAI ? In the process of making a stator we use solder, we also crimp the cable/wire, apply coating etc. As I read here on the elsmar forum, these are modifications made to the catalog part(s) and therefor we cannot call it 'Assembly' and it must be a Detail FAI, am I right ?

2. In the AS9102 Rev A Form 2 (XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx), all the 13 parts goes in there(?) As you can see on the pic. vendor_manufacturer_cut.jpg our customer cut the Vendor/Manufacturer name of the part (on most of the parts actually). How am I supposed to provide "8. Special Process Supplier Code" and "10. Certificate of Conformance number" ? Only 1 item out of 13 came with the Certificate. Number "9. Customer Approval Verification" was pre-filled with "NA" by our customer who gave us these 3 forms.

3. Form 2 wants from us to provide even a process name, number, CoC etc. Let's say this process is called "soldering". We don't have a process name, number nor certificate for this process. How would you include this into the Form 2? Am I supposed to create internal process for soldering, write the process on an A4 and give it a special number? What about the certification for this process? I just don't understand ...

4. Form 3 (XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx)
Column 5 Char No. in the drawing YYYY-0100-0100 there is a, b etc in the cirle, is this the so called bubble drawing ? Drawing was made in 1988. For example the high voltage test 1000 V 50 Hz, shall I draw a circle with number, I don't know, "5" next to this req. into the drawing? And then in the form 3 is it going to be "5 Char No." "5"?

Last question. Dimensional measurements. Our laborers measure each stator during and prior the finishing process with a Vernier caliper. We do not make any reports on the Dimensional measurements. Either the measurements correlate with the drawing and if not, then the stator is removed and recycled from the production process. We do not make any final dimensional measurements on the product. Final product is tested in a special machine (tester) for its characteristics, 26 measurements were done (statistical_summary.jpg). So what am I supposed to include in the Form 3?

All the documents, pictures, forms are in the attachement. XX.YYYY FAI - 112233.docx has red "?" question mark in each cell which I do not understand. Please, be aware of the fact that we are not AS9100 certified, this is our first contract with an aerospace company. Thank you
Q - During contract review - Is the customer asking for a FAIR on the assembly or individual parts? - get clarification and charge them accordingly.
  Post Number #4  
Old 14th November 2017, 08:18 AM
Orwell

 
 
Total Posts: 2
Re: AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by dsanabria View Post

Q - During contract review - Is the customer asking for a FAIR on the assembly or individual parts? - get clarification and charge them accordingly.
I am currently waiting for a response from our customer.
Attached Thumbnails
AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3-fair1-jpg  
  Post Number #5  
Old 14th November 2017, 10:19 AM
Eredhel

 
 
Total Posts: 294
Re: AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

AS9102 FAIRs are definitely costly and should be added into the cost if it's not too late. They can take a long time to prep and then complete. Do you have the extra pages that tell you what each numbered cell is, or do you just have the form pages you fill in?
  Post Number #6  
Old 14th November 2017, 05:37 PM
dsanabria

 
 
Total Posts: 1,368
Re: AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Orwell View Post

I am currently waiting for a response from our customer.
Lesson learned for future contract review...
  Post Number #7  
Old 14th November 2017, 11:40 PM
BoardGuy

 
 
Total Posts: 186
Re: AS9102 FAI report Forms 1-3

An AS9102 is euphemistically called a tour of the world for good reason. You must verify all requirements listed on the drawing and within customer required specifications line by line. If your customer is purchasing to a procurement drawing, only those requirements apply and not the sub-assembly drawing unless they are also listed on the procurement drawing.

The International Aerospace Quality Group (IAQG) has AS9102 training materials found in the Supply Chain Management Handbook (SCMH) section of their website. The link to IAQG is International Aerospace Quality Group
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
When is a new AS9102 report required for Outsourced Processing? reneramirez17 AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 1 12th April 2015 05:21 PM
Inter-Relationship of 3 AS9102 Forms dkusleika AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 7 24th December 2014 11:46 AM
Do we need all three AS9102 forms if we manufacture only Piece Parts? Hodgy Hotsauce AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements 6 4th March 2013 10:59 AM
AS9102 First Article Training Material and AS9102 Forms 1, 2, and 3 Eloy Gomez Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 7 8th June 2012 08:30 AM
AS9100 and AS9102 - Does our supplier have to do the FAI using the 3 AS9102 forms? ViableNick Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 3 11th November 2011 02:49 PM



The time now is 06:33 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



Misc. Internal Links


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"