Elsmar Cove Quality DiscussionsHow to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management SystemsThe Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems


Elsmar XML RSS Feed
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links




Courtesy Quick Links


Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support:

Jennifer Kirley's
Conway Business Services


Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC



International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Organization for Standardization - ISO Standards and Information

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags
system integration, ems (environmental management system), qms (quality management system)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 12th June 2008, 01:33 PM
bgwiehle

 
 
Total Posts: 154
Question How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems

I am looking for advice on how to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems (QMS & EMS). We're making progress but a fresh perspective can only help...

Constraints:
2 standards (ISO/TS16949 & ISO 14001), 2 registrars (corporate decision), separate QMR & EMR, often different people are responsible for equivalent systems.

Consideration:
There is significant health & safety documentation available that piggybacks onto the QMS & EMS, but is not truly integrated to either.

Status:
Both management systems are fairly mature. Document control & Training processes are completely integrated. Significant overlap exists in some other systems, especially procedural (i.e. both systems do it almost the same way, but produce separate records). I am in the process of mapping the congruence between the 2 systems.

Progress:
Joint internal audits (where feasible) are being attempted this year.

Questions:
? Is there a way to structure an integrated QMS/EMS to reduce duplication while remaining auditable by different 3rd parties?
? Is there anyone in the region between London ON and Kitchener ON who is also engaged in this exercise (at whatever stage) who would like to network on this topic?

Thanks!
B.G. Wiehle (EMR)

QMR = Quality Management Representative
EMR = Environmental Management Representative

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 12th June 2008, 01:59 PM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor

 
 
Total Posts: 15,244
Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by bgwiehle View Post

I am looking for advice on how to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management Systems (QMS & EMS). We're making progress but a fresh perspective can only help...

Constraints:
2 standards (ISO/TS16949 & ISO 14001), 2 registrars (corporate decision), separate QMR & EMR, often different people are responsible for equivalent systems.

Consideration:
There is significant health & safety documentation available that piggybacks onto the QMS & EMS, but is not truly integrated to either.

Status:
Both management systems are fairly mature. Document control & Training processes are completely integrated. Significant overlap exists in some other systems, especially procedural (i.e. both systems do it almost the same way, but produce separate records). I am in the process of mapping the congruence between the 2 systems.

Progress:
Joint internal audits (where feasible) are being attempted this year.

Questions:
? Is there a way to structure an integrated QMS/EMS to reduce duplication while remaining auditable by different 3rd parties?
? Is there anyone in the region between London ON and Kitchener ON who is also engaged in this exercise (at whatever stage) who would like to network on this topic?

Thanks!
B.G. Wiehle (EMR)

QMR = Quality Management Representative
EMR = Environmental Management Representative
I do not have all the answers, but here are a few things that I have observed:

(By the way, I am not an ISO 14001 expert)

This organization (my Client) is ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 14001 certified.

The Manual is totally integrated. For clarity, ISO/TS text is black, ISO 14001 text is green. Same with procedures and other supporting documentation.

Internal audits, management reviews, etc, are integrated as well.

Duplication of effort has been avoided to the extent possible.

Works like a charm. Registrar (external) auditors are delighted.

Stijloor.
  Post Number #3  
Old 12th June 2008, 02:49 PM
Paul Simpson's Avatar
Paul Simpson

 
 
Total Posts: 1,833
Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Here's an idea.
  • Identify your business processes
  • Identify responsible people as process "owners "
  • Get them to document the ones that need to be documented in the way they want to describe the activity they own
  • You and the QMR (and the H & S person) either together or separately review the documented procedures
  • With the process owners add in any TS or 14001 (or OSHA) specific elements that have been missed

Hey presto! Integrated management system in language the users should understand and without reference to all the jargon only we, the "experts" understand. Like:
  • Environmental aspects
  • Product realization

... and not a clause number to be seen!
Thanks to Paul Simpson for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #4  
Old 12th June 2008, 04:55 PM
Peter Fraser's Avatar
Peter Fraser

 
 
Total Posts: 457
Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Paul Simpson View Post

Here's an idea.
  • Identify your business processes
  • Identify responsible people as process "owners "
  • Get them to document the ones that need to be documented in the way they want to describe the activity they own
  • You and the QMR (and the H & S person) either together or separately review the documented procedures
  • With the process owners add in any TS or 14001 (or OSHA) specific elements that have been missed

Hey presto! Integrated management system in language the users should understand and without reference to all the jargon only we, the "experts" understand. Like:
  • Environmental aspects
  • Product realization

... and not a clause number to be seen!
Paul

You are being sensible again...!
  Post Number #5  
Old 12th June 2008, 09:29 PM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,366
Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Paul Simpson View Post

Here's an idea.
  • Identify your business processes
  • Identify responsible people as process "owners "
  • Get them to document the ones that need to be documented in the way they want to describe the activity they own
  • You and the QMR (and the H & S person) either together or separately review the documented procedures
  • With the process owners add in any TS or 14001 (or OSHA) specific elements that have been missed

Hey presto! Integrated management system in language the users should understand and without reference to all the jargon only we, the "experts" understand. Like:
  • Environmental aspects
  • Product realization
... and not a clause number to be seen!

If they did their ISO 9001 correctly, most of this should already be done.

The QMS should define the processes already. Most of those supporting processes will be essentially the same as in ISO 14001.

I find ISO 14001 typically just adds a few new things -

Defining the Aspects and Impacts of your operations (cl 4.3.1 if you want to refer to it,

Determining your Legal Regulations and Requirements, and evaluating whether you are complying to them (cl 4.3.3 and 4.5.2),

Determining Objectives and Targets for EMS,

Planning for Emergency Preparedness (cl 4.4.6),

and additional training (cl 4.4.2).

Most of the rest of the requirements should be the same as they are in ISO 9001.
  Post Number #6  
Old 13th June 2008, 03:00 AM
Paul Simpson's Avatar
Paul Simpson

 
 
Total Posts: 1,833
Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

If they did their ISO 9001 correctly, most of this should already be done.
The point of my tongue in cheek post was to say forget about the standard requirements and start from what the business wants and needs - ah well!

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

The QMS should define the processes already. Most of those supporting processes will be essentially the same as in ISO 14001.

I find ISO 14001 typically just adds a few new things -

Defining the Aspects and Impacts of your operations (cl 4.3.1 if you want to refer to it,
Part of business planning, new product introduction and change management.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

Determining your Legal Regulations and Requirements, and evaluating whether you are complying to them (cl 4.3.3 and 4.5.2),
Part of market surveillance, business planning, new product introduction.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

Determining Objectives and Targets for EMS,
Part of business planning

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

Planning for Emergency Preparedness (cl 4.4.6),
Part of business planning

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

and additional training (cl 4.4.2).
Part of business planning, new product introduction, HR processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Helmut Jilling View Post

Most of the rest of the requirements should be the same as they are in ISO 9001.
  Post Number #7  
Old 13th June 2008, 03:21 AM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,366
Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Paul Simpson View Post

The point of my tongue in cheek post was to say forget about the standard requirements and start from what the business wants and needs - ah well!

Part of business planning, new product introduction and change management.

Part of market surveillance, business planning, new product introduction.

Part of business planning

Part of business planning

Part of business planning, new product introduction, HR processes
Sure Paul, but one can go so far away from the "buzzwords" in the ISO standard that they lose all links to what the standard is trying to say.

The way you described it, it sounds more like a quality system than an environmental one. And, as I indicated, those things should already be in place in a 9001 system, so they would not need to do them over again. My point was they needed to add those few additioanl things I mentioned, and harmonize the rest.

I think it is useful for an organization to understand the different official parts of the 14001 program, because it helps facilitate integrating the 2 programs. Nonetheless, an organization i permitted to call them whatever they want. They just have to be able to answer audit questions as well.
  Post Number #8  
Old 13th June 2008, 03:35 AM
Paul Simpson's Avatar
Paul Simpson

 
 
Total Posts: 1,833
Re: How to increase integration between our Quality & Environmental Management System

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Peter Fraser View Post

Paul

You are being sensible again...!
Heaven forbid! Or if I am - it's OK ... only a passing phase!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Quality and Environmental Management System Integration RyanFleser Benchmarking 11 18th March 2013 07:22 PM
Integration of HR (Human Resources) and Quality Management Systems spunky ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2 17th March 2011 03:09 PM
Key Differences and Similarities between Environmental and Quality Management Systems Amelia80 Environmental Related Standards 1 13th February 2008 07:56 AM
Integration of six sigma and environmental management systems eswar Environmental Related Standards 1 7th November 2005 11:06 AM



The time now is 09:47 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.



Misc. Internal Links


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"