How do you handle a pushy auditor?

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kcoryell

We just finished our ISO9001 initial assessment audit. We came out with 10 minor non-conformances, but we were reccomended. Here is the problem that I had: My auditor on numerous ocassions would ask for lists (PM backlog list, Receiving interim deviation list, engineering change list,etc.). I would say we have no list, I can show you files with these records, She would say "you should have a list." This would go around and around, until I would hand her the standard and say,"show me the 'shall'." That is when she would back off and just say "well, it would just make things easier if you had a list." My biggest problem, was her interpretation of an internal audit, because of certain wording in the audit she would not accept the audit. She wanted to call it a Gap analysis. When I asked why she would not accept it and an auditor from her company had accepted it at our last audit. I was informed that just because one auditor bought off on it, does not mean that another audtor would have to do the same. So, I then asked how this could be, since they were representing the same company. "Did they not have a standard that they had to go by?" "Was there no continuity in there company?" "They want to hold us to a certain guideline and yet they cannot even hold themself to that guideline."

How much do you have take from a Registrar? I understand that they work for us, and we can fire them, but don't they actually have us over the barrel? If they do not pass us we can be in trouble with our customer. This just seems like a battle that is almost not worth fighting!
 

Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
I thought the days when we had this approach had largely gone, especially with the change of the standard in 2000 - how naive I am!

There will always be variation in auditors, they are human beings after all (most of them!) and ISO 9001 is a very variable standard so expect variation. What you should not have to put with though is personal preference from the auditor.

You are quite right to argue your corner if you do not agree with the auditor. You can do this informally, on a personal level or go back to the registrar and make your representations to them. If need be, ask for a different auditor next time. However, it could be that the auditor has some good points and may be offering some useful ideas so perhaps you should not dismiss them out of hand.

The lunch is still a good ideas though!!!
 

DannyK

Trusted Information Resource
Every registrar has a complaint and appeals process. Call them up to complain about the behaviour of this auditor.

Tell the registrar that they should assign another auditor to your file. If they do not satisfy you, I am sure there are other registrars that would be happy to help you out.

Danny
 
K

kcoryell

She was here 4 1/2 days. Monday -Chinese, Tuesday-Italian, Wednesday-Applebees, Thursday-Chinese. I gained 5 lbs. Thanks Randy!!!
 

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
My biggest problem, was her interpretation of an internal audit, because of certain wording in the audit she would not accept the audit. She wanted to call it a Gap analysis.

Okay...now I'm curious...what was the wording that your auditor is hung up on?

That being said, did your Registrar provide you with a feedback sheet? If not, I strongly urge you to contact your customer rep at the Registrar to discuss your concerns. Maybe the auditor was having a bad week...who knows?...contrary to popular belief, external auditors are human. :notme:

A nice lunch with the doors closed and "pens down" is also a good, and informal, means by which to talk about your concerns directly with the auditor, as well.
 
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Rob Nix

1. Instead of bristling right away, seek to understand what the audit is saying; ask, “What do you mean?”, “Can you give me an example?”, “Are you saying we meet the standard now, but that your suggestion may be an improvement?”. Auditors, like most people, want to feel a sense of accomplishment. At the same time, you may learn something that will help you in the long run.

2. Is the request something that could be done fairly quickly, and will make the auditor happy? Sometimes, taking thirty minutes to type a “list” may save hours of later dickering. Weigh the pros and cons of the request.

3. If all else fails, like others have said, explain your concerns on their evaluation sheet and/or request a new auditor. You may get a new one that is on your wavelength. The caution is that you may get one that is even worse!
 
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Gert Sorensen

To me it seems like you have two options, and neither one is particularly tempting:

1. You gather all the documentation that you need to make sure that you can go past the auditor - guns blazing - and demand that the auditor be removed from any and all tasks relating to your company. If you choose this road be sure to have really, really good documentation - including recordings if possible. Make sure that this is a joint management decision :cool:

2. You try the smoothtalking road, do a bit of brown-nosing, and tell the auditor that you think that, even though you haven't done so far, you will seriously try to implement any and all the things that the auditor brings up.....

What you really don't want is to P... off an auditor and then leave them in a position where they can have any influence on your company and your certification :mg: :mg: :mg:

Perhaps you can benefit a bit from distancing yourself mentally and try to keep focus on your ultimate goal, the certificate. And, as a by note: There may be something good to be gained, even though the advise is ill phrased and ill presented...
 
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