Can a Registrar do Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

[Valeri]

I have not purchased the new TS rules. Having said that, I am receiving conflicting rules "interpretations" regarding the integration of registration audits for TS16949 & ISO14001 audits. One registrar says they can integrate - the other says no can do. Please help - I'm losing what little mind I have left.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

I have not purchased the new TS rules. Having said that, I am receiving conflicting rules "interpretations" regarding the integration of registration audits for TS16949 & ISO14001 audits. One registrar says they can integrate - the other says no can do. Please help - I'm losing what little mind I have left.

That's an interesting spin, Valeri! Did they give you a reason why the two can't be integrated? Is it the auditor or the actual CB saying this?

 

[Valeri]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

Andy,

One source is a registrar auditor who performs both TS and ISO14001 audits says yes we can integrate. The other is a district rep. quoting on registration services that says no. I'm wondering if they don't mean the same but are not speaking the same; e.g. audits can be done at the same time but each has to have a seperate audit plan/schedule with the mandays for the TS audit remaining the same.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

I have not purchased the new TS rules. Having said that, I am receiving conflicting rules "interpretations" regarding the integration of registration audits for TS16949 & ISO14001 audits. One registrar says they can integrate - the other says no can do. Please help - I'm losing what little mind I have left.

I think you can integrate all you want. The question most people ask is how auditing (for certification purposes) days estimation is done when an organization has an integrated management system and is applying for dual certification, e.g., ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 14001.

The FAQ at the IATF website states:



This clarification is now Rules 3rd FAQ #1.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Previously FAQ 7 [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If an IATF contracted certification body conducts one audit to satisfy management system standards in addition to ISO/TS16949:2002 the IATF Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition for ISO/TS16949:2002 shall be observed. [/FONT]​

​

 

[AndyN]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

Andy,

e.g. audits can be done at the same time but each has to have a seperate audit plan/schedule with the mandays for the TS audit remaining the same.

Valeri:

Your comment is the correct one!

 

[Valeri]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

Thanks Sidney.

We integrated TS & ISO14001 several years ago with regards to corrective/preventive action, internal audits, document/record control management review, etc.

I guess I haven't lost it (mostly) after all; the audits will require the same number of mandays whether performed together or not which equals no cost savings for registration services.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

It might be possible to reduce the ISO14001 days on the basis of the joint sections such as Audits, Management Review etc.

 

[Howard Atkins]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

I think you can integrate all you want. The question most people ask is how auditing (for certification purposes) days estimation is done when an organization has an integrated management system and is applying for dual certification, e.g., ISO/TS 16949 and ISO 14001.

The FAQ at the IATF website states:



This clarification is now Rules 3rd FAQ #1.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Previously FAQ 7 [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]If an IATF contracted certification body conducts one audit to satisfy management system standards in addition to ISO/TS16949:2002 the IATF Rules for Achieving IATF Recognition for ISO/TS16949:2002 shall be observed. [/FONT]​

​

Sidney where are these
Rules 3rd edition SI's or FAQ's have not been issued.
17:00 GMT January 21 2009

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Integrated TS16949 & ISO14001 Audits

I guess I haven't lost it (mostly) after all; the audits will require the same number of mandays whether performed together or not which equals no cost savings for registration services.

Yes, we can...

It might be possible to reduce the ISO14001 days on the basis of the joint sections such as Audits, Management Review etc.

I agree with Howard. A sensible, progressive thinking CB, using the latitude provided by ISO 17021, would likely agree that, provided you truly have an integrated and effective Q&E Management System in place, the audit days for assessing your integrated system against ISO 14001 requirements could be reduced. I doubt any IATF approved CB would gamble and take a risk, reducing the TS audit days, but there is more flexibility for the ISO 14001 assessment. Make sure you invite progressive-thinking CB's to this exercise .

And, as a side comment, many business development representatives, working for CB's out there, don't have the profound knowledge of all the rules and schemes. It takes years to accumulate such knowledge, and most don't last that long...

 

[SDSnyder]

Integrating our TS and ISO 14001 produced a cost savings due to the number of audit hours being reduced. That was one of the benefits of integrating.