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Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

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  Post Number #1  
Old 23rd January 2018, 08:11 PM
leaning

 
 
Total Posts: 44
Question Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

In the ASQ Auditing Handbook, it states:
Quote:
The risk-benefit ratio is a method of analyzing the risk of reporting (based on the sample) or not reporting compared to the benefit to be gained by reporting or not reporting an area of concern.
Does this ever apply to noncomformities? Do you always report all nonconformities? Does anyone have an example of a nonconformity that is not reported because it has a low risk?

Thanks for your help!

Regards,
leaning

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  Post Number #2  
Old 23rd January 2018, 09:52 PM
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Randy

 
 
Total Posts: 8,755
Re: Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

Somebody left the lights on in an office contrary to electricity reduction plan....Just turn the stinking light off!
Thanks to Randy for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #3  
Old 23rd January 2018, 09:59 PM
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Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,672
I Say... Re: Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by leaning View Post

<snip> Do you always report all nonconformities? <snip>
Yes, you do. "Level" of risk has nothing to do with noncomformances. If it is, it is.

While Randy's post is Dilbert amusing, I am sure you are not referring to such a minor "nonconformance".

  Post Number #4  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:15 PM
leaning

 
 
Total Posts: 44
Re: Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

Randy,

That's perfect! Thanks! (I could think of many OFI/good practices/recommendations to the auditee that an auditor can elect not to report because of risk (the book uses the example of a misspelled word that is on many procedures, and would cost too much time and money to fix), but I couldn't think of a good "contrary to audit evidence" nonconformity example. That works great.)
  Post Number #5  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:39 PM
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Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,672
Re: Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by leaning View Post

<snip> I could think of many OFI/good practices/recommendations <snip>
A nonconformance is a nonconformance.

OFI/good practices/recommendations are not requirements unless the company specifies them as such. And if they are, a nonconformance is a nonconformance.

As to the ASQ's "ASQ Auditing Handbook", it apparently is saying if you find a nonconformance and you don't think it's important don't report it. Now, how much sense does that make?

I understand the desire to bring in "risk based", but - If it is not essential, for what ever reason, why is it a documented requirement and/or policy? If there is no reason for it, get rid of it.

Thank You to Marc for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 23rd January 2018, 10:54 PM
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AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 9,127
Let Me Help You Re: Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by leaning View Post

In the ASQ Auditing Handbook, it states:
Quote:
The risk-benefit ratio is a method of analyzing the risk of reporting (based on the sample) or not reporting compared to the benefit to be gained by reporting or not reporting an area of concern.
Does this ever apply to noncomformities? Do you always report all nonconformities? Does anyone have an example of a nonconformity that is not reported because it has a low risk?
Part of the problem with quality systems auditing is, that the model of how to report something is based on external (2nd and 3rd party) audit practices. Internal audits shouldn't follow this model. Writing nonconformities, grading them, expecting root cause are all inappropriate for internal audits. Randy's really trying to propose that some things just need fixing. Write it in the report, "we found it, it was fixed". Don't force everything down the throat of root cause etc. it's just not worth it. It MIGHT be worthwhile to consider risk, but the auditor is going to have to do a lot of analysis to support this approach.
Thank You to AndyN for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #7  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:25 PM
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Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,672
Thumbs up Re: Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AndyN View Post

<snip> "we found it, it was fixed". <snip>
Exactly. You find a problem, you fix it.
  Post Number #8  
Old 23rd January 2018, 11:30 PM
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Randy

 
 
Total Posts: 8,755
Re: Nonconformity's risk is too low, so don't report it?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by leaning View Post

Randy,

That's perfect! Thanks! (I could think of many OFI/good practices/recommendations to the auditee that an auditor can elect not to report because of risk (the book uses the example of a misspelled word that is on many procedures, and would cost too much time and money to fix), but I couldn't think of a good "contrary to audit evidence" nonconformity example. That works great.)
If someone gives you any bunk point them to this part of ISO 9001:2015, 10.2.1 "Corrective actions shall be appropriate to the effects of the nonconformities encountered."

And guess who gets to determine "appropriate"? You do!
Thank You to Randy for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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