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FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
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FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84
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  Post Number #1  
Old 8th December 2009, 06:24 AM
Eric York - 2010's Avatar
Eric York - 2010

 
 
Total Posts: 11
Question FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Greetings all,
This is sort of a non-question in my book, but I need to at least respond to my customer and I'd appreciate your help. It is related to questions discussed here long ago, but I did not find a recent post with the info I'm looking for.

Our organisation sort of fixed a threshold of RPN>100 as a starting point for actions related to RPN, with the intent to continue with a pareto-type approach once all (or almost all) RPNs are sub-100. Unfortunately, this is not documented properly; we basically just say in our procedure that we must define and implement actions for RPN over 100. (Today roughly 1-2% are still above 100)

In a recent customer audit report, the auditor stated "for standard PPAP for automotive requirements an action plan is typically for an RPN > 84".

I didn't think any standard or guideline specifically listed an RPN threshold. If this is true, "standard" is what his company does or what he has seen or would like to see.

My question: can you confirm no current standard or guideline specifically notes a threshold for actions to reduce RPN?

Thanks for your help,
Eric

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  Post Number #2  
Old 8th December 2009, 07:27 AM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor

 
 
Total Posts: 15,326
Re: FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Eric York View Post

Greetings all,
This is sort of a non-question in my book, but I need to at least respond to my customer and I'd appreciate your help. It is related to questions discussed here long ago, but I did not find a recent post with the info I'm looking for.

Our organisation sort of fixed a threshold of RPN>100 as a starting point for actions related to RPN, with the intent to continue with a pareto-type approach once all (or almost all) RPNs are sub-100. Unfortunately, this is not documented properly; we basically just say in our procedure that we must define and implement actions for RPN over 100. (Today roughly 1-2% are still above 100)

In a recent customer audit report, the auditor stated "for standard PPAP for automotive requirements an action plan is typically for an RPN > 84".

I didn't think any standard or guideline specifically listed an RPN threshold. If this is true, "standard" is what his company does or what he has seen or would like to see.

My question: can you confirm no current standard or guideline specifically notes a threshold for actions to reduce RPN?

Thanks for your help,
Eric

Eric,

The auditor is totally wrong! There is no such equirement. Go tell the auditor to read the latest AIAG FMEA manual which clearly states that using RPN thresholds for whether or not to take action is not a recommended practice.

Challenge the auditor!!

Here are some threads discussing RPN thresholds.

Stijloor.

Last edited by Stijloor; 8th December 2009 at 07:34 AM.
Thank You to Stijloor for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #3  
Old 8th December 2009, 07:30 AM
brahmaiah

 
 
Total Posts: 471
Re: FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Eric York View Post

Greetings all,
This is sort of a non-question in my book, but I need to at least respond to my customer and I'd appreciate your help. It is related to questions discussed here long ago, but I did not find a recent post with the info I'm looking for.

Our organisation sort of fixed a threshold of RPN>100 as a starting point for actions related to RPN, with the intent to continue with a pareto-type approach once all (or almost all) RPNs are sub-100. Unfortunately, this is not documented properly; we basically just say in our procedure that we must define and implement actions for RPN over 100. (Today roughly 1-2% are still above 100)

In a recent customer audit report, the auditor stated "for standard PPAP for automotive requirements an action plan is typically for an RPN > 84".

I didn't think any standard or guideline specifically listed an RPN threshold. If this is true, "standard" is what his company does or what he has seen or would like to see.

My question: can you confirm no current standard or guideline specifically notes a threshold for actions to reduce RPN?

Thanks for your help,
Eric
There is no threshold limit in the FMEA manual.FMEA manual is a guidance manual and not a mandatory one. >84 limit is not a requirement unless there is a CSR to that effect.It is the contract that decides all requirements and not the auditor.
This was a question you had to ask the auditor in the close out meeting.
V.J.Brahmaiah
  Post Number #4  
Old 8th December 2009, 09:09 AM
Eric York - 2010's Avatar
Eric York - 2010

 
 
Total Posts: 11
Re: FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Stijloor View Post

Eric,

The auditor is totally wrong! There is no such equirement. Go tell the auditor to read the latest AIAG FMEA manual which clearly states that using RPN thresholds for whether or not to take action is not a recommended practice.

Challenge the auditor!!


Stijloor.
Thanks Stij,
This is consistent with what I believed. I still don't have a copy of the 4th Ed.; you just gave me yet another reason to obtain it.

Thanks for the links as well; there were a couple in there I hadn't found.
Eric
  Post Number #5  
Old 8th December 2009, 09:46 AM
Manix's Avatar
Manix

 
 
Total Posts: 565
Re: FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Basically supporting what the others have already said, but 4th ed is trying to take the focus away from simply RPNs and looking at the individual ratings also. Something could have a severity of 10, an occurence of 8 and detection of 1 and still be below the said threshold. Yet I would say something that has a severity of 10 needs attention regardless of how good you are at inspecting it or how likely it is to happen!!!!!

My latest recert auditor made this very point and so your auditor is not in alignment with at least their standard (they are all supposed to be consistent are they not?!!!! ). I would challenge the auditor!
Thanks to Manix for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 8th December 2009, 06:09 PM
Howard Atkins's Avatar
Howard Atkins

 
 
Total Posts: 2,979
Re: FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Eric York View Post

Greetings all,


In a recent customer audit report, the auditor stated "for standard PPAP for automotive requirements an action plan is typically for an RPN > 84".

Thanks for your help,
Eric
I am sorry but you all are right if this had been a 3rd party audit. But according to the post customer audit report.
The customer can say and demand what he likes. Logical or not.
  Post Number #7  
Old 8th December 2009, 06:23 PM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,197
Re: FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Howard Atkins View Post

I am sorry but you all are right if this had been a 3rd party audit. But according to the post customer audit report.
The customer can say and demand what he likes. Logical or not.
That's true, but we don't know if the auditor was citing his company's requirement or just unfamiliar with the general requirements. If the 84 number is indeed a customer-specific requirement, it should be documented somewhere.
  Post Number #8  
Old 9th December 2009, 07:32 AM
Manix's Avatar
Manix

 
 
Total Posts: 565
Re: FMEA Action Plan Threshold (RPN) - Auditor says Action Plan for an RPN > 84

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Howard Atkins View Post

I am sorry but you all are right if this had been a 3rd party audit. But according to the post customer audit report.
The customer can say and demand what he likes. Logical or not.
Yes of course you are technically right but this frustrates me!! It mocks standardisation and makes the job of compliance very difficult especially for us smaller firms.

"Here have an agreed standardised approach to FMEA, but those customers who have their own rules would like you to ignore this and those who cannot be bothered to make up some of their own rules would like you to use it!"

Granted some CSRs may have logical grounds but in this case it just makes things harder for compliance to be achieved I see no value in having multiple approaches to what is supposed to be a standardised approach to risk mitigation. What is the logic in 84 as a threshold? For me it's lazy, pick a number and if it's higher do something, if it's lower go grab a coffee. It ignores the individual ratings and adds no value to the process!!

Rant over!!!
Thanks to Manix for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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