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IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unusable - Page 4

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iatf 16949:2016, nonconforming material product or service, scrap
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  Post Number #25  
Old 15th February 2018, 06:07 AM
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Scanton

 
 
Total Posts: 58
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

Unfortunately Normzone the components are made from stainless steel.

We segregate our waste even down to the specific grade of stainless steel so we get the best price for our waste (components, bar ends and swarf), and it makes it easy for our waste contractor to melt it down (making any components irreversibly unusable) to be used again as a small % of recycled material in a new batch of raw material.

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  Post Number #26  
Old 16th February 2018, 05:07 PM
John C. Abnet

 
 
Total Posts: 48
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

Good afternoon @joekirk/all;
This has certainly been a contentious an frustrating requirement. Hopefully what I am providing below will be of assistance to all.
Specific to your original question, please note the initial qualifying statement in 8.7.1.7 "...for disposition of non-conforming product not subject to rework or repair." One can infer from this that the product being spoken about may indeed be dispositioned as scrap. Please also note, however, that the standard (as is common) leaves some room...i.e., provides a "blank canvas" for your organization to comply with the standard while still "painting" the specific needs of your organization.
Obviously it is important/required to ensure that "... that outputs that do not conform to their requirements are...controlled to prevent their unintended use or delivery." (8.7.1). This statement, however, does not preclude the verbiage used "...the product to be scrapped...". Taken verbatim/legalistically, the standard is leaving some room between "...product not meeting requirements..." and "...the product to be scrapped...".
The standard is recognizing that not all "...product not meeting the requirement..." will be scrapped. Indeed the standard is speaking specifically to "...THE product to be scrapped...". This allows your organization to determine "...THE product to be scrapped...". Once you have identified how that determination will be made, then determining a method appropriate to your organization regarding "...rendered unusable..." may become easier.
Hope this helps.
  Post Number #27  
Old 3rd April 2018, 06:11 AM
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Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,672
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

Also see: IATF 16949 Cl. 8.7.1.7 - Scrapped nonconforming product
  Post Number #28  
Old 18th June 2018, 01:51 PM
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Woody

 
 
Total Posts: 10
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

This was one of the findings identified in our IATF 16949 transition audit. We stamp body panels and assemble closures. The auditor identified that we were effectively controlling the handling of product to be scrapped internally to prevent use of that part "that is just good enough" to make a shipment.

The problem was that our outsourced method of rendering scrap unusable was not effectively verified. The process identified was to compare weight tickets of scrap bins leaving our facility to those received at the recycler some thirty miles distant. By incorporating an audit at contract renewal, we were able to show more oversight. The process applies to the PPAPed part - any intermediary part need not be addressed.

A note about auditors being able to distinguish shades of gray: many CB's and some of their individual auditors were called to task regarding soft auditing, and differences between audit findings with and without a witness auditor present. We should all be aware that the auditor is more likely to issue the nonconformance and we must then dispute the finding in order to get common sense applied to our specific situation. This allows the auditor to show that he did his part even if the CB's review board overturns the finding.
Thanks to Woody for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #29  
Old 18th June 2018, 04:40 PM
John C. Abnet

 
 
Total Posts: 48
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

Good day @woody;
Please help me understand...
Are you indicating that your organization is/was (at the time of the 3rd party audit)...
1-
"...compar(ing) weight tickets of scrap bins leaving our facility to those received at the recycler some thirty miles distant." ?

Are you further indicating that ...
2- ...the 3rd party auditor applied a non-conformance "finding" of clause 8.7.1.7 against your organization considering the method described in "1-" ?

Is my stated understand correct in regards to what transpired ?

Thanks in advance.
  Post Number #30  
Old 29th June 2018, 11:25 AM
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Woody

 
 
Total Posts: 10
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

Yes, the weight ticket comparison was taking place; the painting of product before going into scrap bins was being done. Contracts state the purpose of collecting the scrap is for recycling.

Honestly, I thought should have been sufficient to show that this subcontracted service was adequately verified. However, I neither have my card or a certifying body to back up my opinion.
  Post Number #31  
Old 29th June 2018, 12:00 PM
John C. Abnet

 
 
Total Posts: 48
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

Thanks for the additional information @woody.
Based on your OP, I infer that the auditor had no concern with how this "to be scrapped" product was identified/controlled within your facility., (which, I would argue is the highest priority). I infer that the auditor only had concern with the "render unusable" method you are using (i.e. send to outside recycle source).
If my understandings listed are correct, then it appears (sadly) that you have an auditor whom is unrealistic / less than pragmatic regarding this. I have heard horror stories about organizations actually sending associates "with" scrap trucks and visually verifying destruction/recycling of products. Neither safe nor wise. I would suggest a complaint to your registrar. Short of their support/cooperation, best of luck until the IATF team determines their error in verbiage and updates the SI.
  Post Number #32  
Old 13th July 2018, 06:27 AM
morteza

 
 
Total Posts: 175
Re: IATF 16949 Clause 8.7.1.7 Nonconforming Product Disposition - Scrap Rendered Unus

Hi all,

In FAQ#11 published by IATF, there is a great question an I think a strange answer as follows:

QUESTION 4:
Does nonconforming product disposition apply only to final product or does it also apply to component/interim sub-assembly?

ANSWER 4:
This requirement applies to the product that has gone through the part approval process and that the organization is shipping to the customer.

As you know, during PPAP process the final product is sent to customer for approval and the organization ships the final product to customer. For example an Actuator (an assembled product which is used for locking automotive doors) is sent to customer for approval. This product consists of several modules/components which covered by two plastic covers welded by ultra-sonic technology.
If the final product would not pass the required specification such minimum force test, the company rendered the product by breaking the plastic cover of the product.

My questions are:

1- Based on above answer, Is not necessary to rendered the interim non-conforming components such as nonconforming blades or connectors of an actuator? It may these components return to production line and escape from the organization and make problems to customer.

2- Does the scope of the requirements of clause 8.7.1.7 only are limited to final product (which is shipped to customer after part approval) not interim sub-assembly?

I believe that all components which can affect on final product specification should be rendered, for example a single gear in an automotive gearbox which can cause the gearbox has noise, should be rendered.

Thanks in advance for your explanations.
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