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IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
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IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements
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  Post Number #25  
Old 29th November 2017, 08:42 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,287
Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

Also see: International Automotive Task Force for FAQ, etc.

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  Post Number #26  
Old 7th December 2017, 02:34 PM
JerryJ

 
 
Total Posts: 24
Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

Just to add to the conversation, on my last TS audit back in June I received a minor non-conformance for shadowing an internal auditor in training. My argument was if I am the one doing the training how can I not be watching how they are performing the audit. Her response was how long does it take to train an auditor. After one time they should be on their own. Needless to say that set me off and it turned in to a screaming match. You want to write something up then write a non-conformance against a real issue. This was nit-picking, so I did a bullshit corrective action she closed it and said she would never come back. A lot of the auditors I have dealt with come in here with the attitude thinking everyone should be scared because I'm here to audit you, well that does not fly with me and have kicked a couple out the door before they even got started. I'm paying you to come in here and do a job I don't care what you want or how you want it to look. It either conforms to the standard or it doesn't. When you call and complain to the registrar you get nowhere. Now my transition audit which is this July the auditor coming in does a good job and will explain why she is writing non-conformances. Not come in and the first thing is what's for lunch lets get that out of the way.
I think I'm done now.
Thanks to JerryJ for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #27  
Old 7th December 2017, 02:43 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,127
Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JerryJ View Post

Just to add to the conversation, on my last TS audit back in June I received a minor non-conformance for shadowing an internal auditor in training. My argument was if I am the one doing the training how can I not be watching how they are performing the audit. Her response was how long does it take to train an auditor. After one time they should be on their own. Needless to say that set me off and it turned in to a screaming match. You want to write something up then write a non-conformance against a real issue. This was nit-picking
Unbelievable how unprofessional some auditors can be.

I really wish there was an auditor-rating webspace available, as I proposed in the Rating Auditors - A 'Clearinghouse' for Auditors or a Way to Rate Auditors? thread. Some of the bozos would be weeded out, much, much quicker.
  Post Number #28  
Old 7th December 2017, 03:58 PM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 1,216
Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JerryJ View Post

Just to add to the conversation, on my last TS audit back in June I received a minor non-conformance for shadowing an internal auditor in training. My argument was if I am the one doing the training how can I not be watching how they are performing the audit. Her response was how long does it take to train an auditor. After one time they should be on their own. Needless to say that set me off and it turned in to a screaming match. You want to write something up then write a non-conformance against a real issue. This was nit-picking, so I did a bullshit corrective action she closed it and said she would never come back. A lot of the auditors I have dealt with come in here with the attitude thinking everyone should be scared because I'm here to audit you, well that does not fly with me and have kicked a couple out the door before they even got started. I'm paying you to come in here and do a job I don't care what you want or how you want it to look. It either conforms to the standard or it doesn't. When you call and complain to the registrar you get nowhere. Now my transition audit which is this July the auditor coming in does a good job and will explain why she is writing non-conformances. Not come in and the first thing is what's for lunch lets get that out of the way.
I think I'm done now.
That's the kind of stuff that makes me nuts. She went beyond the standard and looked at your method of training with no evidence that the training itself was ineffective. Be gland she is never coming back. I have found that there are some really bad auditors in automotive.
  Post Number #29  
Old 11th December 2017, 05:11 AM
tony s's Avatar
tony s

 
 
Total Posts: 133
Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

If the IATF Sanctioned Interpretation released in October 2017 clarified that:

from the statement: "Where training is provided to achieve competency, documented information shall be retained to demonstrate the trainer's competency with the above requirements".

to this statement: "If the organization’s personnel provide the training to achieve competency, documented information shall be retained to demonstrate the trainer's competency with the above requirements".

and with a Rationale for Change: "Distinguish competency requirements for quality management system auditors, manufacturing process auditors, and product auditors. Clarified the trainer competency expectations for internally provided training".

Then, competency of the trainer of internal audit training courses given by external providers (i.e. consultants) will not be challenged by the CB auditors? What's your take on this?
Thanks to tony s for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #30  
Old 14th December 2017, 06:37 AM
Stijloor's Avatar
Stijloor

 
 
Total Posts: 15,243
Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by tony s View Post

If the IATF Sanctioned Interpretation released in October 2017 clarified that:

from the statement: "Where training is provided to achieve competency, documented information shall be retained to demonstrate the trainer's competency with the above requirements".

to this statement: "If the organizationís personnel provide the training to achieve competency, documented information shall be retained to demonstrate the trainer's competency with the above requirements".

and with a Rationale for Change: "Distinguish competency requirements for quality management system auditors, manufacturing process auditors, and product auditors. Clarified the trainer competency expectations for internally provided training".

Then, competency of the trainer of internal audit training courses given by external providers (i.e. consultants) will not be challenged by the CB auditors? What's your take on this?
Regardless of the SI, some of my new Clients are interested in my credentials and competencies. So I have included in my listing of credentials a few formal "Statements of Competency" that are the result of actual observations and verification of my training work and audit skills by an IATF Lead Assessor and a Corporate Quality Director of a very large automotive supplier organization. Just to remove all doubt.
Thanks to Stijloor for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #31  
Old 14th December 2017, 06:53 AM
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AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 8,676
Lightbulb Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

Just found yet another nc from a CB auditor who thinks the internal auditors MUST be IATF trained! Someone needs to stop the insanity!

The OE's are increasing frustrated by bogus CB audit findings several degrees removed from the real issues of product quality being experienced by the car makers...
Thanks to AndyN for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #32  
Old 14th December 2017, 10:02 AM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 1,216
Re: IATF 16949:2016 Cl. 7.2.3 Internal Auditor Competency Requirements

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by AndyN View Post

Just found yet another nc from a CB auditor who thinks the internal auditors MUST be IATF trained! Someone needs to stop the insanity!

The OE's are increasing frustrated by bogus CB audit findings several degrees removed from the real issues of product quality being experienced by the car makers...
Well they wrote the thing and can stop the madness anytime they choose. But they don't. In my view a lot of this comes from the top down. I'll bet the CB set that policy because they where questioned during their accreditation review. Easier to require a certificate to show the next guy than prove competence.
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