IATF 16949:2016 transition audit - Internal Audit Closures

[Filip_M]

Dear all, shall all ncr's arised during the internal audit be closed before the transition audit performed by a CB take place? More specific, we performed a full internal audit acc. IATF two months before the transition audit, still not all ncr's are closed. How to interpredte transition rule 4 concern closing all ncrs arised during the internal audit? Thanks in advanced for a quick reply. Gr. Filip

 

[AndyN]

Dear all, shall all ncr's arised during the internal audit be closed before the transition audit performed by a CB take place? More specific, we performed a full internal audit acc. IATF two months before the transition audit, still not all ncr's are closed. How to interpredte transition rule 4 concern closing all ncrs arised during the internal audit? Thanks in advanced for a quick reply. Gr. Filip

No. It may not be possible to do that. If the ncrs haven't been closed due to a lack of management support, then you may well have a problem...

 

[Filip_M]

Dear Andy, the comment of the CB is that we can not demonstrate compliance acc. IATF due the fact not all ncr's closed before transition audit starts. Demonstrate compliance is what point 4 of the transition rules required

 

[AndyN]

Dear Andy, the comment of the CB is that we can not demonstrate compliance acc. IATF due the fact not all ncr's closed before transition audit starts. Demonstrate compliance is what point 4 of the transition rules required

What are the internal audit findings that can't be closed? Are they actually useful audit findings? Do they paint you into a corner and stop you from closing them adequately?

 

[Hendor]

Greetings to all

Something more or less came to us that may end up in the same situation. We have 3 plants and the dates for our transition to IATF are at the end of June for two plants and 1 for the middle of July.

Actually we are working with the transition to IATF, so our plan was to carry out the internal audit of the last days of March.

But we received the surprise of the CB the documentary review in April, and we received a list of information solicited , one of the points is:

-Copy of the internal Audit plan and evidence of completion of internal audits to confirm all the processes of the QMS have been audited and are compliant against the requirements of IATF16949 with evidence of actions closed. :mg:

Therefore, if we audited in March, and the time according to the times to close the 8D, these would be open in the effectiveness verification stage, so we would not comply.

Therefore, we had to advance the QMS auditors to February. Many NC results, right now working on closing.

However, we are thinking of some internal audit programs after the documentary review, in the processes, where greater risks are presented, but just the same we would be running the risk that in case that we found NC with status open for our transition.

What do you think of my case?

 

[Sebastian]

I've read, I've read and still can not find in certification rules, requirement clearly stating that status of all detected during internal audits nonconformities shall be closed before or during 3rd party audit.
In my opinion the most related section is 5.7.1 Client information for planning, where point g) says "results of internal audits and management review since the previous audit".
Suspected is point b) saying "the client's quality management system documentation, including evidence about conformity to IATF 16949 requirements and showing the linkages and interfaces to any remote support functions and/or outsourced processes;" It could be used as indirect rationale for CB expectations, but as long correction is implemented, system is conform.
Another aspect is timing of 3rd party audit versus annual program of system internal audits. Organizations are audited in quarter, half or after full implementation of their program, so there are always some audits in progress, nonconformities to close and so on. Therefore it might be not feasible, except initial certification, to have all nonconformities closed.

I should not be wrong, but maybe there is something I have overlooked. Any active auditor to comment?

 

[Golfman25]

It's in the rules 4th or 5th edition or an interpretation somewhere -- but you do need a full internal audit with all issues closed. They have been asking for that for some time. It's not uncommon for them to ask for something not specifically mentioned.

 

[Sebastian]

Please find it before posting. Ok?

 

[Golfman25]

As I said, it is not uncommon for CBs to ask for things not specifically required. They have been asking for "process maps" even though the standard requires no such thing.

 

[AndyN]

I have seen the loooong list one US CB wants from its clients and it is, frankly, ridiculous...