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Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
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Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
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audit nonconformances and findings, employee training and qualifications, training (general)
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  Post Number #9  
Old 13th October 2017, 11:43 AM
Coury Ferguson's Avatar
Coury Ferguson

 
 
Total Posts: 4,557
Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

So what do you do with unwritten procedures? The trend on each revision has been to do away with mandatory written procedures and now even a quality manual.
Just a quick answer/suggestion:

Use a flow chart identifying the processes. Use this instead of written procedures.

Just my suggestion.

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  Post Number #10  
Old 13th October 2017, 02:47 PM
kylerf

 
 
Total Posts: 5
Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

The new standard (Iatf16949:2016) still requires a quality manual in sec 7.5.1.1

AS9100D is the standard you may be thinking of that has done away with the requirement of a quality manual or procedures in general.

Currently, the corrective actions procedure and the nonconforming product procedure are the only procedures required by IATF16949 and AS9100D.
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  Post Number #11  
Old 14th October 2017, 10:21 AM
Jen Kirley's Avatar
Jen Kirley

 
 
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Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

So what do you do with unwritten procedures? The trend on each revision has been to do away with mandatory written procedures and now even a quality manual.
When procedures are not required, I review what people tell me for consistency, and observe to see if reality matches the rhetoric. I review the outcomes; if the process is a success, conforms with the standard's and/or interested party requirements and supports the management system, then I have little choice but to decide that the process looks like it has demonstrated effectiveness.
Thanks to Jen Kirley for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #12  
Old 14th October 2017, 01:18 PM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 977
Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jen Kirley View Post

When procedures are not required, I review what people tell me for consistency, and observe to see if reality matches the rhetoric. I review the outcomes; if the process is a success, conforms with the standard's and/or interested party requirements and supports the management system, then I have little choice but to decide that the process looks like it has demonstrated effectiveness.
And that is what our auditors essentially did. Is the process a success and does it comply with the standard? Saved a lot of time.
  Post Number #13  
Old 14th October 2017, 04:39 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
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Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jen Kirley View Post

When procedures are not required, I review what people tell me for consistency, and observe to see if reality matches the rhetoric.
Jen's method to audit "undocumented processes" is spot on and there is a guidance paper from the TC 176 on the subject.

The one step that I normally would add to this method is to start with an interview of the process owner. S/he should provide a description of the process, any potential critical step, etc.
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #14  
Old 16th October 2017, 10:01 PM
Jen Kirley's Avatar
Jen Kirley

 
 
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Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

And that is what our auditors essentially did. Is the process a success and does it comply with the standard? Saved a lot of time.
If the internal person finds out about procedures that do not make sense, good. We are, however expected to do process audits which includes relevant documentation.
  Post Number #15  
Old 17th October 2017, 06:32 AM
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Marc

 
 
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Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

<snip> Is the process a success <snip>
The important part is how you know, and can show (prove), that the undocumented process is a "success".
Thanks to Marc for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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