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Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
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Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)
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audit nonconformances and findings, employee training and qualifications, training (general)
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  Post Number #1  
Old 12th October 2017, 01:43 PM
kylerf

 
 
Total Posts: 5
Please Help! Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes (IATF 16949)

Hi,

This may seem like a dumb question to you guys but,
What ISO/TS/ element would a write up on not following the organizations own procedures/processes/work instructions be?

For example, lets say that the organization stated in the procedure that the wall are to be green, but a third party comes in and the walls are purple. What TS/IATF element would this be against?

There are a couple clauses that i believe it could be but i cant find one that comes out and says "follow your own processes"

thoughts?

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  Post Number #2  
Old 12th October 2017, 02:04 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,946
re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by kylerf View Post

What ISO/TS/ element would a write up on not following the organizations own procedures/processes/work instructions be?
4.4.1.c)
Quote:
determine and apply the criteria and methods (including monitoring, measurements and related performance indicators) needed to ensure the effective operation and control of these processes;
Thank You to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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  Post Number #3  
Old 12th October 2017, 03:09 PM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 977
re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by kylerf View Post

Hi,

This may seem like a dumb question to you guys but,
What ISO/TS/ element would a write up on not following the organizations own procedures/processes/work instructions be?

For example, lets say that the organization stated in the procedure that the wall are to be green, but a third party comes in and the walls are purple. What TS/IATF element would this be against?

There are a couple clauses that i believe it could be but i cant find one that comes out and says "follow your own processes"

thoughts?
What clause did the auditor cite? I haven't really seen a non-conformance for not following our own procedures as most procedures are linked to a clause. So the auditor always found fault with application of the clause itself.
  Post Number #4  
Old 12th October 2017, 04:43 PM
Marc's Avatar
Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,035
Oh goodness Not THIS again - Not following internal procedures? A FIREABLE offense. Period.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

<snip> I haven't really seen a non-conformance for not following our own procedures <snip>
Surely your company does not allow this... Nor does any standard that I am aware of.
  Post Number #5  
Old 12th October 2017, 08:04 PM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 977
Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Marc View Post

Oh goodness Not THIS again - Not following internal procedures? A FIREABLE offense. Period.

Surely your company does not allow this... Nor does any standard that I am aware of.
Actually after a while most outside auditors didn't even bother with our written "procedures." Everything was evaluated with regard to the standard. It actually worked excellent for us. Our internal auditors where able to focus on compliance with procedures which where designed to comply with the standard and was more their area of expertise. The third party auditors would focus more on the standard, which they where experts in. Duplication and redundancy was reduced and we actually had some value from both.
  Post Number #6  
Old 12th October 2017, 10:25 PM
Jen Kirley's Avatar
Jen Kirley

 
 
Total Posts: 6,036
Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

Actually after a while most outside auditors didn't even bother with our written "procedures." Everything was evaluated with regard to the standard. It actually worked excellent for us. Our internal auditors where able to focus on compliance with procedures which where designed to comply with the standard and was more their area of expertise. The third party auditors would focus more on the standard, which they where experts in. Duplication and redundancy was reduced and we actually had some value from both.
I'm glad this works for you, but I have managed to have more meaningful input when reviewing the process, then asking for the procedure and actually reading it, and finding (along with the client) parts of it that don't make sense. I have found in these cases that insiders can sometimes be too close to a procedure to notice issues with it.
Thank You to Jen Kirley for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #7  
Old 13th October 2017, 02:31 AM
somashekar's Avatar
somashekar

 
 
Total Posts: 5,262
Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by kylerf View Post

Hi,

This may seem like a dumb question to you guys but,
What ISO/TS/ element would a write up on not following the organizations own procedures/processes/work instructions be?

For example, lets say that the organization stated in the procedure that the wall are to be green, but a third party comes in and the walls are purple. What TS/IATF element would this be against?

There are a couple clauses that i believe it could be but i cant find one that comes out and says "follow your own processes"

thoughts?
Your question is in the internal auditing sub-forum., and therefore I assume you are talking about internal auditing.
Here, do not be bogged down with the standards clause etc. If your procedure xx.yy is not being followed as stated in that procedure, just write-up quoting that procedure, along with the observed evidence.
To quote the standards clause in the NC is the third party auditors business, not yours.
You look into your processes and systems you have established during your internal auditing.
Thanks to somashekar for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #8  
Old 13th October 2017, 11:01 AM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 977
Re: Nonconformance on training - Not following own processes

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Jen Kirley View Post

I'm glad this works for you, but I have managed to have more meaningful input when reviewing the process, then asking for the procedure and actually reading it, and finding (along with the client) parts of it that don't make sense. I have found in these cases that insiders can sometimes be too close to a procedure to notice issues with it.
So what do you do with unwritten procedures? The trend on each revision has been to do away with mandatory written procedures and now even a quality manual.
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