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Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?
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  Post Number #1  
Old 6th March 2007, 01:32 PM
KWalls - 2008

 
 
Total Posts: 101
Please Help! Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

Hello Covers,

I have been working with a quality managment person from another machine shop recently for a project that we are working on in tandem. He has informed me that we have quite a large QMS covering way more than a shop our size needs. However, he didn't mention which parts would be beneficial or which parts complicate. (I don't know much about quality/ISO... I'm learning as I go. I have told him this and it's like he's using it against me-using quality jargon that he knows I wouldn't understand, etc. ) Can someone help me out and tell me what requirements a small shop would need to address and which I could get away with not addressing? I don't want to take anything out that is going to hinder our eventual registration either. I just need some direction...

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  Post Number #2  
Old 6th March 2007, 02:21 PM
Colin's Avatar
Colin

 
 
Total Posts: 1,508
Re: Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

This is a wide subject, much of which has been addressed a number of times before so perhaps a search would turn up a few more answers.

It is difficult to answer accurately unless we know what you currently have by way of a system. If you want to know the basics - you must have a quality manual (could be 1 or 2 pages long) and you must address at least 6 key elements in documented procedures (documents, records, internal audits, N/C product and corrective/preventive action).

These only give you the peripheral controls. The main processes such as sales, purchasing, planning, manufacture, etc also need to be controlled. It is perhaps these areas where you can trim things down.

Let us know the size and shape of your system as it is and we can work from there.
  Post Number #3  
Old 6th March 2007, 02:31 PM
KWalls - 2008

 
 
Total Posts: 101
Look! Re: Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Colpart View Post

This is a wide subject, much of which has been addressed a number of times before so perhaps a search would turn up a few more answers.

It is difficult to answer accurately unless we know what you currently have by way of a system. If you want to know the basics - you must have a quality manual (could be 1 or 2 pages long) and you must address at least 6 key elements in documented procedures (documents, records, internal audits, N/C product and corrective/preventive action).

These only give you the peripheral controls. The main processes such as sales, purchasing, planning, manufacture, etc also need to be controlled. It is perhaps these areas where you can trim things down.

Let us know the size and shape of your system as it is and we can work from there.
Thank you, Colpart. This is the information I was looking for. My search abilities are lacking, obviously... I had found a few things, but nothing that says "this is exactly what you HAVE to have".

The current QMS I am working with is a regurgitation of the standard with the exception of the exclusion of D&D. EVERY other item listed in the requirements is addressed in the QMS which is roughly 30-something pages long. I know that we don't have to address everything in detail-it would just create more work than what it's worth. I was hoping to just get some advice on how I could effectively "pare" it down. I appreciate your willingness to assist me.

**Please don't think I am trying to get someone else to do the work... that's not what I mean by that at all!! I just need someone to tell me what they think I could do to "clean it up" a bit.

Last edited by KWalls - 2008; 6th March 2007 at 02:34 PM. Reason: Added disclaimer to bottom of post.
  Post Number #4  
Old 6th March 2007, 03:00 PM
Colin's Avatar
Colin

 
 
Total Posts: 1,508
Re: Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

OK! we have a start point. My first advice would be to consider re-writing the quality manual to reflect your organisation rather than the standard. What is the point of repeating the words of a standard? - just cross reference to it.

You should have a 'description of the interaction of your processes' in the manual (clause 4.2.2 c)) - usually a flowchart or something similar.

From this, you can identify the main processes and decide how you will control each of them. Some will be by a documented procedure because that is what suits you best (notice I said suits you, not the standard). Others may be controlled by a flowchart, software program, pictures, diagrams or just by the competence of the person - you decide what works best.

If you do have documented procedures, make sure that they don't contain too much detail. Generally, procedures tell us who does what and why. Leave the how (the detail) out of the procedure. If you need it, put it in a work instruction so that you don't clog up the procedure. They are also more easily controlled that way.
  Post Number #5  
Old 6th March 2007, 03:11 PM
SteelMaiden's Avatar
SteelMaiden

 
 
Total Posts: 4,196
Re: Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

Number one, your counterpart is something of an a$$ if he is using your inexperience against you and throwing out terminology he is sure that you will be unfamiliar with. You can tell him I said so.

There is a thread somewhere on here that tells you exactly which procedures are required by the standard, and another that says exactly which record types are required. You can also find them by going into your copy of the standard and hi-liting the references.

I am not sure that I understand, so bear with me...Are you saying that your entire quality management system, policies, procedures and work instructions, et.al. are in your quality manual? If so, they do not NEED to be. If it works for you, fine. If not, you can refer to the procedures you have in place in the manual without actually including them.

There are some examples of peoples quality manuals on here, search for them, there are some examples in the attachment files also. Read a few, decide what you like and start making changes as you feel comfortable to do so. Remember, this is your system, not 's, so don't let him intimidate you. Remember, some people cannot help it if they are bullies, they may have been dropped on their heads as babies and sustained brain damage. I've usually found that the best way to take care of people like that is to quietly and relentlessly learn all that you can, and then wait until he makes some outrageous claim and jump all over it! Usually, a bully won't pick on you if you stand up to them. It is the same in business as it was in kindergarten. Unfortunately.
  Post Number #6  
Old 6th March 2007, 05:54 PM
KWalls - 2008

 
 
Total Posts: 101
Look! Re: Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

You guys are already a big help.

Steel,

Thank you for understanding my frustration... sometimes I think people feel more important, too, if they can use terminology that you aren't familiar with to make you feel intimidated. Doesn't work for me. I'm like you, learn all you can now, so that you can smoke 'em later on. LOL!

SO, for the matter at hand, I can post my qms (embarrassingly enough) so that you can take a look at it. Just for a little more clarification, when I say we are a small machine shop, we now only have 6 employees - that's including the Pres & VP. So I don't want to overcomplicate business by implementing too much of the standard. In fact, WI's are pretty much communicated by the CNC controls on the machines.

Colpart,

I have a flowchart of our process for mfg and it's in the QMS. I'll post it next so that you can tell me what you think.

I REALLY value all of you guys here. The cove is such an invaluable tool!!!!


**HELP! I can't seem to attach anything right now. I will try back later!**

Last edited by KWalls - 2008; 6th March 2007 at 06:02 PM. Reason: my english skills are lacking today too...
  Post Number #7  
Old 7th March 2007, 01:28 PM
KWalls - 2008

 
 
Total Posts: 101
Re: Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by KWalls View Post

I have a flowchart of our process for mfg and it's in the QMS. I'll post it next so that you can tell me what you think.

**HELP! I can't seem to attach anything right now. I will try back later!**
So, here I go again!! Let's hope I can get it to work this time...
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before opening, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: doc QUALITY MANUAL.doc (203.0 KB, 1195 views)
  Post Number #8  
Old 7th March 2007, 02:22 PM
fuzzy's Avatar
fuzzy

 
 
Total Posts: 200
Let Me Help You Re: Simplifying QMS for small machine shop?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by KWalls View Post

So, here I go again!! Let's hope I can get it to work this time...
Hello Kyle,

How's that gap analysis tool working? I don't see anything really wrong with your QM; it is longer than it could be, but that's OK if you want the configuration to be what you've got. The section title pages add length and you really do not have to detail out the requirements of each section; you can just give a one-sentence summary of the nature of each clause and refer over to your procedure / WI that addresses the process(es). My last QMS Manual was 19 pages; not the shortest and not the longest I've seen. As Steel and others have said: step back and take a look, and make the QMS be your companies.

As for trimming areas of the QMS, as a small company you can scale your systems / methods down to be very simple in all areas, but there is no ISO-lite that trims whole clauses / sections of the Standard out for small companies. Example: without seeing your procedure, I think that quarterly management reviews will be overkill in a small company of 6-7, unless you are chunking out different sections each quarter; to do the whole review 4x/ year will be most-likely, non-value added twice, IMHO.

But hey, I like your documentation numbering scheme...
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