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ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
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ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation
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  Post Number #17  
Old 11th March 2009, 02:25 AM
JaneB's Avatar
JaneB

 
 
Total Posts: 3,518
Re: ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Esthyl View Post

Jane & Randy, sorry that I have confused you all, I should write clearly

In previous post, I have doubt to Randy's suggestion it's acceptable to not even refer to it at all. I assume the 'it' is ISO 9001. I didn't include any clause in QM / QP, but there are many ISO 9001:2000 phrases in between lines of QM / QP, eg. QM, which is a documentation ...... in relation to the ISO 9001:2000. So, I have doubt if the documents make sense if take off those ISO 9001 phrase. I hope you get what I meant now.
I wasn't before, but now I'm confused. Perhaps you could post a short example to illustrate what you mean? (And yes, the 'it' = 9001)

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  Post Number #18  
Old 11th March 2009, 03:41 AM
Esthyl - 2010

 
 
Total Posts: 39
Re: ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JaneB View Post

I wasn't before, but now I'm confused. Perhaps you could post a short example to illustrate what you mean? (And yes, the 'it' = 9001)
All right, before I get everyone confused, I will try my best to make this clear. Randy, pls don't mind to rectify me if I get you wrong.

An example in my current QM:
MR shall establish, implement and maintain the quality system in accordance with the requirements of the ISO 9001:2000 standard.

My understanding with Randy's suggestion:
MR shall establish, implement and maintain the quality system in accordance with the requirements.
===========================================================
Another example in my current QM:
The Management Team, together with the ISO Committee, shall review the quality management system to ensure its continuing suitability and effectiveness and that all aspects of the quality requirements in ISO 9001:2000 Standard are fully satisfied.

My understanding with Randy's suggestion:
The Management Team, together with the ISO Committee, shall review the quality management system to ensure its continuing suitability and effectiveness and that all aspects of the quality requirements are fully satisfied.
  Post Number #19  
Old 11th March 2009, 04:03 AM
JaneB's Avatar
JaneB

 
 
Total Posts: 3,518
Re: ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation

Esthyl,

OK, thanks - now I see. (A couple of examples are worth it!!) Yes, your suggested rewrite is pretty much as Randy is suggesting, I think.

My own suggestion would be that you do put ISO 9001 in somewhere (after all, you need a commitment to it), eg: XYZ company is committed to a quality system that meets all relevant requirements including those of ISO 9001.

I say 'all relevant ...including' because you may have other internal requirements or there may be relevant legislation/regulations, etc etc. in your field. Don't use the year, you can just say 'ISO 9001' because then it's to the current one.

Then after that, I would simply refer to 'relevant requirements', you don't need to keep repeating 'ISO 9001' because you've already committed to that.

Randy is right in one way BUT not even mentioning 9001 would/might/could get some less enlightened auditors a bit twitchy, so I'd definitely do it once, where you make the commitment (eg, as in your first example below).

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Esthyl View Post

MR shall establish, implement and maintain the quality system in accordance with the requirements of the ISO 9001:2000 standard.

My understanding with Randy's suggestion:
MR shall establish, implement and maintain the quality system in accordance with the requirements.
Yes... but I prefer your original one because it's clearer. 'the requirements' is a bit vague.

If it were me, I'd make it even shorter (drop 'establish' because presumably you've already done that). And I don't care for 'shalls' - but that's up to you.

MR implements and maintains a quality system that meets the requirements of ISO 9001.


Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Esthyl View Post

The Management Team, together with the ISO Committee, shall review the quality management system to ensure its continuing suitability and effectiveness and that all aspects of the quality requirements in ISO 9001:2000 Standard are fully satisfied.

My understanding with Randy's suggestion:
The Management Team, together with the ISO Committee, shall review the quality management system to ensure its continuing suitability and effectiveness and that all aspects of the quality requirements are fully satisfied.
I'd write this something like so:

The Management Team and ISO Committee review the quality management system to ensure its continuing suitability and effectiveness and that all relevant requirements are fully satisfied.
Thanks to JaneB for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #20  
Old 11th March 2009, 08:29 AM
Howard Atkins's Avatar
Howard Atkins

 
 
Total Posts: 2,979
Re: ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation

Look at what happens
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by ISO9001:2000

2 Normative reference
The following normative document contains provisions which, through reference in this text, constitute provisions of this International Standard. For dated references, subsequent amendments to, or revisions of, any of these
publications do not apply. However, parties to agreements based on this International Standard are encouraged to investigate the possibility of applying the most recent edition of the normative document indicated below. For undated references, the latest edition of the normative document referred to applies. Members of ISO and IEC maintain registers of currently valid International Standards. ISO 9000:2000, Quality management systems Fundamentals and vocabulary.
This means that ISO9000:2005 is irrelevant to ISO9001:2000

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by ISO9001:2008

2 Normative references
The following referenced documents are indispensable for the application of this document. For dated references,only the edition cited applies. For undated references, the latest edition of the referenced document (including any amendments) applies.
ISO 9000:2005, Quality management systems - Fundamentals and vocabulary
Again if ISO 9000 is updated it will not be relevant to ISO 9001.
  Post Number #21  
Old 11th March 2009, 07:11 PM
JaneB's Avatar
JaneB

 
 
Total Posts: 3,518
Re: ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation

I can't agree that ISO 9000 is 'irrelevant' to 9001, Howard. I hope this doesn't sound overly picky (and perhaps I'm inferring a meaning that you didn't intend).

Au contraire, ISO 9000 is part of the 9000 suite of documents (as indicated by its number) and useful - eg, to check the definitions that are being used of terms in 9001 for example. (Which is much better than people guessing or making up their own.)

And the official line on this says "It is highly recommended that you use ISO 9000 to become familiar with the basic concepts and the language used before you adopt ISO 9001 to achieve a first level of performance. "

Now, I don't actually agree with that 'highly recommended' either - I think starting out by reading all of ISO 9000 is rather a big ask and a lot to try to digest (I wouldn't and if I should ever feel a slight urge to do so would lie down until it passed; I only use it as a reference when needed).

But I don't and can't accept that it is 'irrelevant'.
  Post Number #22  
Old 11th March 2009, 07:30 PM
Randy's Avatar
Randy

 
 
Total Posts: 8,704
Re: ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation

Right at the front of ISO 9000:2005

Foreword

This document (ISO 9000:2005) has been prepared by Technical Committee ISO/TC 176 "Quality management and quality assurance", Subcommittee 1, “Concepts and terminology”, in collaboration with the CEN Management Centre (CMC).

This European Standard shall be given the status of a national standard, either by publication of an identical text or by endorsement, at the latest by March 2006, and conflicting national standards shall be withdrawn at the latest by March 2006.

This document supersedes EN ISO 9000:2000.


ISO 9000 was prepared by Technical Committee ISO/TC 176, Quality management and quality assurance, Subcommittee SC 1, Concepts and terminology.
This third edition cancels and replaces the second edition (ISO 9000:2000). It includes the changes accepted in the Draft Amendment ISO/DAM 9000:2004.


9000:2005 is relevant to 9001:2000 and 9001:2008...no question, no debate
  Post Number #23  
Old 7th July 2009, 12:50 PM
bertever - 2009

 
 
Total Posts: 7
Re: ISO 9001:2000 to ISO 9001:2008 Transition - Changing documentation

By all means look forward. The standard has been published since 15 Nov 08, and no new certificates will be issued for :2000 after 15 Nov 09, as I have read. Besides, the changes and explanations all are helpful.

Bert
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