ISO 9001:1994 to ISO 9001:2000 Transition - Is a Consultant Necessary?
- Thread starter Raffy
- Start date
What could be the main reason in pursuing for a consultancy? 
M
M Greenaway
Raffy
You only need a consultant if you dont know what you are doing yourself.
My preferred course is always to learn it and do it myself.
You only need a consultant if you dont know what you are doing yourself.
My preferred course is always to learn it and do it myself.
Claes Gefvenberg
Admin
Hi,
I wholeheartedly agree that it's best to do it yourself, if that is possible. Just make sure you and your coworkers get the training you need before the kick-off.
The workload will be a factor to consider: It's all up to how well adapted your current QMS is to the new standard. Can you and your coworkers cope? For some companys the workload involved may be so great that outside help becomes necessary. As long as you stay in charge of it I see little harm in getting a helping hand.
/Claes
I wholeheartedly agree that it's best to do it yourself, if that is possible. Just make sure you and your coworkers get the training you need before the kick-off.
The workload will be a factor to consider: It's all up to how well adapted your current QMS is to the new standard. Can you and your coworkers cope? For some companys the workload involved may be so great that outside help becomes necessary. As long as you stay in charge of it I see little harm in getting a helping hand.
/Claes
Randy
Super Moderator
Like a few others here I am a consultant too, and to be honest about it we are not totally necessary. When I have been called it is because either the client does not have the internal resources, the expertise or has gotten completely wrapped around the axle.
I have been lucky mainly because I am not afraid to tell a client that they are on the right track and my being under foot all the time is not necessary...it's a waste of their money. Consequently because I have told them they do not need me they have used me even more due to my honesty thereby increasing my earnings and making them happy at the same time. Sounds crazy doesn't it?
If at the onset of a relationship there is genuine trust and honesty I think a client can get more from the consultant than they pay for. This may not always be true with all consultants but it is with me. I do EMS stuff, but invariably if I see problems with the safety program or in others areas where I have an expertise I will not shy away from giving free advise. Do I have to? Nope. I'm only being paid for EMS not that other stuff. I have learned though I am appreciated more and better received if I offer up those "Freebies". The relationship is strengthed and word of mouth recommendations to other potential clients is a naturally occurring by-product.
Did I ramble enough?
I have been lucky mainly because I am not afraid to tell a client that they are on the right track and my being under foot all the time is not necessary...it's a waste of their money. Consequently because I have told them they do not need me they have used me even more due to my honesty thereby increasing my earnings and making them happy at the same time. Sounds crazy doesn't it?
If at the onset of a relationship there is genuine trust and honesty I think a client can get more from the consultant than they pay for. This may not always be true with all consultants but it is with me. I do EMS stuff, but invariably if I see problems with the safety program or in others areas where I have an expertise I will not shy away from giving free advise. Do I have to? Nope. I'm only being paid for EMS not that other stuff. I have learned though I am appreciated more and better received if I offer up those "Freebies". The relationship is strengthed and word of mouth recommendations to other potential clients is a naturally occurring by-product.
Did I ramble enough?
A
Atul Khandekar
I agree with M.Greenaway and Claes above. You may need a consultant who is a trainer, especially in areas that are difficult to understand. You may not always have time to learn from scratch and then to implement. But you must be prepared to let go of the crutches at some point of time. A good consultant will tell you when that point arrives.
What you don't need is a consultant who is a 'manual writer'. You need Randy like people, who want to add value to your systems.
My company does some consultancy in specialized areas (not certification consultancy) and we too have had occasions when we had to tell our clients that the assignment was over and that they had to be on their own from here on..
-Atul.
What you don't need is a consultant who is a 'manual writer'. You need Randy like people, who want to add value to your systems.
My company does some consultancy in specialized areas (not certification consultancy) and we too have had occasions when we had to tell our clients that the assignment was over and that they had to be on their own from here on..
-Atul.
> I have been lucky mainly because I am not afraid to tell a
> client that they are on the right track and my being under
> foot all the time is not necessary...it's a waste of their
> money. Consequently because I have told them they do not
> need me they have used me even more due to my honesty
> thereby increasing my earnings and making them happy at
> the same time. Sounds crazy doesn't it?
I've done the same for years, however I can't say it has brought me more business with a client. Honesty has won me contracts from time to time, but I lose more than I win when I tell them I can't do everything for them. Most people want the easiest way out without regard to cost. I'm probably 1/2 or less the cost of Perry Johnson, but I can't 'do it while you sleep'.
I picked up a client in Miami recently because, to paraphrase them, I was the "...only one who didn't bull them...". Perry Johnson was, as we might expect, the most aggressive of the bunch. Perry Johnson's sales person kept calling these folks - right up to, and including, the morning I arrived (two calls the morning I arrived). Perry Johnson is telling companies "...We can do it at night while you sleep and not bother your operations..." This client is a good example of using a consultant. Back in 1996 they went through a 'client compliance' project where they ended up with the manuals and all the old stuff. Twenty 'master' controlled manuals, etc. Really a mess. They got a consultant this time because - and this is the neat part - they really want to improve their systems. Their experience with the 1996 fiasco educated them - they learned... This is why they decided against Perry Johnson. They understood that when someone promises the 'easy way out' it's the same story so many people buy hook, line and sinker: We promise the impossible. If a company comes in and 'does everything for you' without involvement of the people in the company, what do you get? Certainly not buy in.
> What you don't need is a consultant who is a 'manual
> writer'. You need Randy like people, who want to add value
> to your systems.
This is true unless you do not have the internal resources and/or expertise. Some companies do, in fact, need help with writing procedures and such.
> I wholeheartedly agree that it's best to do it yourself,
> if that is possible.
Which more often is not the case
> Just make sure you and your coworkers
> get the training you need before the kick-off.
Yup - for sure.
> The workload will be a factor to consider: It's all up to
> how well adapted your current QMS is to the new standard.
> Can you and your coworkers cope? For some companys the
> workload involved may be so great that outside help
> becomes necessary. As long as you stay in charge of it I
> see little harm in getting a helping hand.
I think this sums it up pretty well. There are 2 significant factors: Human Resources and Experience/Expertise within the company. If you lack one or the other (or both) you have little choice.
I also suggest that you read:
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4027
and
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3994
> client that they are on the right track and my being under
> foot all the time is not necessary...it's a waste of their
> money. Consequently because I have told them they do not
> need me they have used me even more due to my honesty
> thereby increasing my earnings and making them happy at
> the same time. Sounds crazy doesn't it?
I've done the same for years, however I can't say it has brought me more business with a client. Honesty has won me contracts from time to time, but I lose more than I win when I tell them I can't do everything for them. Most people want the easiest way out without regard to cost. I'm probably 1/2 or less the cost of Perry Johnson, but I can't 'do it while you sleep'.
I picked up a client in Miami recently because, to paraphrase them, I was the "...only one who didn't bull them...". Perry Johnson was, as we might expect, the most aggressive of the bunch. Perry Johnson's sales person kept calling these folks - right up to, and including, the morning I arrived (two calls the morning I arrived). Perry Johnson is telling companies "...We can do it at night while you sleep and not bother your operations..." This client is a good example of using a consultant. Back in 1996 they went through a 'client compliance' project where they ended up with the manuals and all the old stuff. Twenty 'master' controlled manuals, etc. Really a mess. They got a consultant this time because - and this is the neat part - they really want to improve their systems. Their experience with the 1996 fiasco educated them - they learned... This is why they decided against Perry Johnson. They understood that when someone promises the 'easy way out' it's the same story so many people buy hook, line and sinker: We promise the impossible. If a company comes in and 'does everything for you' without involvement of the people in the company, what do you get? Certainly not buy in.
> What you don't need is a consultant who is a 'manual
> writer'. You need Randy like people, who want to add value
> to your systems.
This is true unless you do not have the internal resources and/or expertise. Some companies do, in fact, need help with writing procedures and such.
> I wholeheartedly agree that it's best to do it yourself,
> if that is possible.
Which more often is not the case
> Just make sure you and your coworkers
> get the training you need before the kick-off.
Yup - for sure.
> The workload will be a factor to consider: It's all up to
> how well adapted your current QMS is to the new standard.
> Can you and your coworkers cope? For some companys the
> workload involved may be so great that outside help
> becomes necessary. As long as you stay in charge of it I
> see little harm in getting a helping hand.
I think this sums it up pretty well. There are 2 significant factors: Human Resources and Experience/Expertise within the company. If you lack one or the other (or both) you have little choice.
I also suggest that you read:
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4027
and
http://Elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=3994
