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Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
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Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
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Some Related Topic Tags
implementing a qms, upper management, upper management commitment, upper management support, implementation of a standard in a company
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  Post Number #17  
Old 14th May 2011, 12:19 AM
Al Dyer's Avatar
Al Dyer

 
 
Total Posts: 829
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

You are a year into the process, management is involved and has the required authority. Why should the Owner etc.. need to be involved? I would be glad that if he/she were not involved!

Al...

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  Post Number #18  
Old 14th May 2011, 09:45 AM
Jen Kirley's Avatar
Jen Kirley

 
 
Total Posts: 6,021
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Such good responses so far!

Top management commitment at CEO level looks different than it does at incrementally lower levels. The higher up the chain, the more it's about providing resources, consistently signaling support of activities (including training of managers) needed to achieve effective systems toward certification, and exhibiting behavior that is consistent with the signals. This tends to set the culture needed for people to work in a common purpose and achieve as an organization.

Lower down the chain we will incrementally find more and more active participation, and evidence of such activities.
Thank You to Jen Kirley for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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  Post Number #19  
Old 24th May 2011, 02:17 PM
cmeby

 
 
Total Posts: 26
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

The management clause is there to ensure that the commitment STARTS at the top and is supported. This does not mean the CEO has to be there EVERY time...but if they are not, there should be Objective Evidence that they have been informed (minutes of the meeting and review of the content) and that they agree with the actions resulting from the management review.

Any auditor that does not ask to meet and discuss the QMS with the CEO is not following through on the guidelines. If the CEO is not available, they will ask for PROOF that they have delegated and approve the actions of the management team.

They need to be at least aware, and cannot remove themselves entirely.

On another note, I worked for a large multi-national company with over 12,000 employees. Our CEO would make the time for 2 management reviews a year. Every 6 months. It is in their advantage to do so, and demonstrates commitment.

The system actually provides the CEO with important information and KPI's if it is designed properly and the way it was intended. Why would they avoid that information?
Thank You to cmeby for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #20  
Old 24th May 2011, 03:09 PM
nmgmarques

 
 
Total Posts: 10
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by somashekar View Post

(yaaa.... This is in fact what the ISO9001 requires a organization to establish, and is stated in the clause 5 of ISO9001 Management responsibility)

Good one marques
Thank you, sir!
  Post Number #21  
Old 23rd August 2017, 08:57 AM
SpinDr99

 
 
Total Posts: 16
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

I agree that the CEO doesn't have to attend ALL of the meetings, but his commitment is also shown by making the effort and attend at least SOME of the meetings. It shows he/she wants to have their finger on the pulse of the QMS and not just through reports.

However, my question is how to demonstrate this commitment to an auditor. Something tangible, not just promoting the creation of a QMS and compliance with the standard. It seems like there should be more to be able to show an auditor. As an auditor, I'd feel much more confident with top managements commitment if I were to see more than what someone tells me during an audit interview. What exactly, I'm not sure. Any suggestions of documented evidence of commitment?

Last edited by SpinDr99; 23rd August 2017 at 09:04 AM.
  Post Number #22  
Old 24th August 2017, 09:51 AM
nmgmarques

 
 
Total Posts: 10
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by SpinDr99 View Post

I agree that the CEO doesn't have to attend ALL of the meetings, but his commitment is also shown by making the effort and attend at least SOME of the meetings. It shows he/she wants to have their finger on the pulse of the QMS and not just through reports.

However, my question is how to demonstrate this commitment to an auditor. Something tangible, not just promoting the creation of a QMS and compliance with the standard. It seems like there should be more to be able to show an auditor. As an auditor, I'd feel much more confident with top managements commitment if I were to see more than what someone tells me during an audit interview. What exactly, I'm not sure. Any suggestions of documented evidence of commitment?
Things are a bit more complicated as of late. In the new 2015 revision it's now not as easy.

Clause 5 now requires top level management to demonstrate it is actively engaged in QMS activities. They can no longer simply delegate and ensure that the activities take place. Quality is now no longer a separate activity within the company but rather ingrained in the entire company and processes. So much so that TLM can no longer nominate a management representative (no longer present in the current 2015 version.

They went as far as defining TLM as the person or group of people who directs and controls an organisation at the highest level.

So this is the Top Level Manager. Not a management representative nor quality manager. However, the scope of the QMS applies to each individual part of an organisation. This means that if for example a plant is part of a bigger group made up of several plants and a headquarters. TLM refers to the person at the highest level of each individual plant and headquarters. Not the Top Management at the top of the pyramid (headquarters).
  Post Number #23  
Old 24th August 2017, 11:25 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,889
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by nmgmarques View Post

Clause 5 now requires top level management to demonstrate it is actively engaged in QMS activities. They can no longer simply delegate and ensure that the activities take place. Quality is now no longer a separate activity within the company but rather ingrained in the entire company and processes.
That is correct, but this is nothing new with the ISO 9001:2015 standard.
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by nmgmarques View Post

So much so that TLM can no longer nominate a management representative
That is incorrect. The standard no longer requires the figure of a management representative, but it does not (and never would) prohibit the organization from having one. If an organization wants to appoint or maintain a management representative, they can.
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by nmgmarques View Post

They went as far as defining TLM as the person or group of people who directs and controls an organisation at the highest level.
The definition of top management in ISO 9000 has been in place for a long time and has not changed.

Before (top) management can commit themselves to an organization's QMS and the certification process, they have to understand what/how/who/when quality management really is.

In the Why do so many ISO 9001 Implementation Programs fail? thread which I triggered, back in 2011, I made the case
Quote:
Going straight to the point, most quality programs fail because organizations don’t understand the difference of managing of quality and managing for quality.

Managing for quality is the concept that the organization business processes are designed, maintained and improved to incorporate proper quality principles and practices. So, quality and customer satisfaction become the natural result of running the organization’s business processes. Managing for quality requires that each process owner will ensure their processes have the appropriate requirements for effective and efficient quality, environmental, occupational health & safety (to name a few disciplines) embedded in the process. For example, a New Product Introduction Process (which is a key process for many organizations) goes across several departments and functions and transcends the requirements of ISO 9001 section 7.3. But, instead of developing, maturing and improving the NPI process, what do many organizations do? They have a procedure to comply with 7.3 of ISO 9001. Instead of someone at the Engineering function being appointed as the NPI process owner, someone in the quality function will be responsible to baby-sit the organization for compliance against 7.3. There are tremendous implications in the different approaches. While the first approach promotes process ownership by the appropriate individuals, the second approach promotes the unsustainable path of someone from quality “policing” other departments (such as Engineering) to ensure they go through their necessary steps of planning, input, review, output, verification and validation. Such path is ineffective and can not be sustained over time.
I still believe, more than ever, that until top management understands modern quality management, they can not commit themselves, as they have a very dysfunctional perception of how quality is supposed to be achieved.
  Post Number #24  
Old 24th August 2017, 11:31 AM
nmgmarques

 
 
Total Posts: 10
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

That is incorrect. The standard no longer requires the figure of a management representative, but it does not (and never would) prohibit the organization from having one. If an organization wants to appoint or maintain a management representative, they can.
I think maybe I was not clear on what I meant. I mean that you can now no longer offload the responsibilities to a representative and claim ignorance. And despite the fact that there may be a rep, managements still has to provide reasonable proof they are involved in QMS and not just "checking in from time to time". TLM must be actively committed.

Last edited by howste; 24th August 2017 at 11:39 AM. Reason: Fixed quote.
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