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Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
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Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process
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Some Related Topic Tags
implementing a qms, upper management, upper management commitment, upper management support, implementation of a standard in a company
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  Post Number #25  
Old 24th August 2017, 11:33 AM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 902
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

I still believe, more than ever, that until top management understands modern quality management, they can not commit themselves, as they have a very dysfunctional perception of how quality is supposed to be achieved.
It's not so much not understanding as it is the push for the quality profession into all aspects of the business. ISO 9000 is not really a quality management system as much as it is a business management system. If we keep calling it a quality system, it will be given to the "quality department." There is no "business department" to give it to.
Thanks to Golfman25 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #26  
Old 24th August 2017, 11:48 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,889
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by nmgmarques View Post

I mean that you can now no longer offload the responsibilities to a representative and claim ignorance. And despite the fact that there may be a rep, managements still has to provide reasonable proof they are involved in QMS and not just "checking in from time to time". TLM must be actively committed.
Delegation of responsibilities will always exist. The intent of top management commitment towards the quality system has not really changed since the 3rd Edition of ISO 9001. Requirements of the standard "don't exist" in the real world until robust verification of conformance happens. To think that most auditors (internal and external) will tell C-level suite executives that they can't delegate responsibilities which they think are mundane, is wishful thinking.

Some people think conformance to 9001:2015 will bring a tidal wave of top management commitment and involvement. To them, I warn: don't fool yourselves; misguided executives will always find the easy path out.

One thing is what the standard says and requires. What happens in the real world is, typically, drastically different.
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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  Post Number #27  
Old 24th August 2017, 11:56 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,889
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

ISO 9000 is not really a quality management system as much as it is a business management system. If we keep calling it a quality system, it will be given to the "quality department." There is no "business department" to give it to.
It's not a system. It is a standard. If ISO 9001 were a business management system, then what would ISO 14001 be? And OHSAS 18001? And ISO 27001? Are they also business management systems?

The QMS is a critical component of an enterprise business management system, but, make no mistake, it is just a component of the whole system.

As 9001:2015 5.1.1.c) requires now, the QMS requirements have to be EMBEDDED in the business/operational processes of the organization, and (theoretically) top management must drive that. If that requirement is adequately understood and accomplished, that means that the "quality department" will no longer be the sole responsible for quality. That, in itself, would be a MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH for most organizations.
Thank You to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #28  
Old 24th August 2017, 06:59 PM
Pancho's Avatar
Pancho

 
 
Total Posts: 817
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

It's not a system. It is a standard. If ISO 9001 were a business management system, then what would ISO 14001 be? And OHSAS 18001? And ISO 27001? Are they also business management systems?
IMO, Quality is special.

ISO 9001 is the first management system for many organizations. Those that do it well will naturally grow their scope to encompass more than the narrow understanding of quality. I don't think that would happen as easily if an organization starts with one of the other standards.
Thanks to Pancho for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #29  
Old 24th August 2017, 07:18 PM
Pancho's Avatar
Pancho

 
 
Total Posts: 817
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

Delegation of responsibilities will always exist. The intent of top management commitment towards the quality system has not really changed since the 3rd Edition of ISO 9001. Requirements of the standard "don't exist" in the real world until robust verification of conformance happens. To think that most auditors (internal and external) will tell C-level suite executives that they can't delegate responsibilities which they think are mundane, is wishful thinking.

Some people think conformance to 9001:2015 will bring a tidal wave of top management commitment and involvement. To them, I warn: don't fool yourselves; misguided executives will always find the easy path out.

One thing is what the standard says and requires. What happens in the real world is, typically, drastically different.
Effective communication is the key to leadership. Communication is not effective if it does not have permanence. The management system is where communication acquires permanence.

I'd expect that, at the very least, good top executives write policies and actively participate in the design and continuous improvement of the key processes.

Yes, sales are important, and the CEO may need to do that. But only as long as, and to the extent that, he or she has not defined the process for effective sales to the point where others can do it with quality. Same goes for other common excuses that C-guys may give for not attending to their most important task: effective leadership.

CEOs cannot delegate leadership. They often do abdicate it, at their companies' peril.
Thank You to Pancho for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #30  
Old 25th August 2017, 11:09 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,889
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Pancho View Post

CEOs cannot delegate leadership. They often do abdicate it, at their companies' peril.
Leadership, as it relates to quality, is most often unexercised. Case in point: how many corporations you know have a CQO? In my experience, most of the time, for lack of proper understanding of what quality is and how to consistently deliver it.

One of the very first sentences in the standard reads:
Quote:
The adoption of a qms is a STRATEGIC DECISION for an organization that can help to improve its overall PERFORMANCE and provide a sound basis for sustainable development initiatives.
Many "corporate types" who misunderstand quality as the outcome of inspection and testing will never understand the meaning of that sentence. From there, it will always be a downhill exercise in ISO 9001 implementation towards certification.
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #31  
Old 25th August 2017, 01:21 PM
normzone

 
 
Total Posts: 658
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

" Leadership, as it relates to quality, is most often unexercised. "

Alas, so true. I regret that I can only click on the [THANKS] button once.

Working uphill to improve that can involve many uncomfortable " emperor's new clothes " moments.
Thanks to normzone for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #32  
Old 25th August 2017, 01:31 PM
Golfman25

 
 
Total Posts: 902
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

Leadership, as it relates to quality, is most often unexercised. Case in point: how many corporations you know have a CQO? In my experience, most of the time, for lack of proper understanding of what quality is and how to consistently deliver it.

One of the very first sentences in the standard reads:
Many "corporate types" who misunderstand quality as the outcome of inspection and testing will never understand the meaning of that sentence. From there, it will always be a downhill exercise in ISO 9001 implementation towards certification.
Right but that is taking "quality" from what it was and redefining it to affect general business management. When you do that, not everyone has to agree. And to me, that is where the mistake was made -- call it something else because it's not "quality" to old people.
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