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"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
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"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
"Context of the Organization" in ISO 9001:2015 Clause 4.1
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4.1 - general requirements, context of the organization, definitions, iso 9001:2015
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  Post Number #25  
Old 3rd July 2016, 01:43 PM
Joe Smith

 
 
Total Posts: 10
Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JoShmo View Post

So, it's NOT policy to comply with requirements? I think I see a problem...
No problem for us. We've never included that actual phrase "a commitment to comply with requirements" as it seems redundant. If we're certificated to the standard, and we're maintaining and improving the QMS, the commitment is implicit. Our CB (BSI) has never questioned it over the past 18 years that I administered the system.
Thank You to Joe Smith for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #26  
Old 3rd July 2016, 07:05 PM
LUV-d-4UM

 
 
Total Posts: 754
Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Joe Smith View Post

No problem for us. We've never included that actual phrase "a commitment to comply with requirements" as it seems redundant. If we're certificated to the standard, and we're maintaining and improving the QMS, the commitment is implicit. Our CB (BSI) has never questioned it over the past 18 years that I administered the system.
The new standard has separated the quality policy into 2 separate clauses:
5.2.1 That the Quality Policy is compatible with the strategic direction and context of the organization.
5.2.2 That the Quality Policy is documented in whatever form and it is required to be available to relevant interested parties.

My company just completed a bumpy ride of transitioning from ISO9001:2008 to ISO9001:2015. What was considered implicit under ISO9001:2008 is now explicit under 2015. We provided the answers that were somewhat convincing but not perfect. So the auditor moved on. BSI will have to ask you how your company satisfies the above 2 sub-clauses of the quality policy. Good Luck.
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  Post Number #27  
Old 5th July 2016, 08:41 AM
JoShmo

 
 
Total Posts: 156
Read This! Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Joe Smith View Post

No problem for us. We've never included that actual phrase "a commitment to comply with requirements" as it seems redundant. If we're certificated to the standard, and we're maintaining and improving the QMS, the commitment is implicit. Our CB (BSI) has never questioned it over the past 18 years that I administered the system.
Let's take it for now that getting "past an auditor" isn't the goal here, whether they work for BSI or anyone else...

From what I recall, a commitment to comply with requirements IS a requirement of the policy. When you say "No problem for us" I'd ask if that is true - for your whole organization. Human behavoiur suggests otherwise. Plus, sometimes it seems redundant, but it's in the standand for a good reason...
  Post Number #28  
Old 5th July 2016, 04:25 PM
Randy's Avatar
Randy

 
 
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Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JoShmo View Post

Let's take it for now that getting "past an auditor" isn't the goal here, whether they work for BSI or anyone else...

From what I recall, a commitment to comply with requirements IS a requirement of the policy. When you say "No problem for us" I'd ask if that is true - for your whole organization. Human behavoiur suggests otherwise. Plus, sometimes it seems redundant, but it's in the standand for a good reason...
Yep you'rfe right and all anyone has to say in their policy is "We promise to do whatever is required of us ....."

You're making a mountain out of an ant hill over this policy ****.
Thank You to Randy for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #29  
Old 5th July 2016, 07:30 PM
JoShmo

 
 
Total Posts: 156
Read This! Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Randy View Post

Yep you'rfe right and all anyone has to say in their policy is "We promise to do whatever is required of us ....."

You're making a mountain out of an ant hill over this policy ****.
When there's a clear requirement to include a commitment and a policy exists which doesn't include that - made worse by auditros who've apparently ignored it - that's OK? Most policies I've seen have been cut n paste from someplace else, management (one person) signed of on it and that's as far as it went. Today, it's supposed to be "right" for the overall business andf the needs of "interested parties". Committing to "exceeding customer expectations" (in ALOT of policys) can't BE policy for everyone, when all that customers want is to make it to the agreed spec...

Ignoreing it as an "ant hill" is what gets ISO a bad name with top people.
  Post Number #30  
Old 5th July 2016, 11:25 PM
LUV-d-4UM

 
 
Total Posts: 754
Lightbulb Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by JoShmo View Post

When there's a clear requirement to include a commitment and a policy exists which doesn't include that - made worse by auditros who've apparently ignored it - that's OK? Most policies I've seen have been cut n paste from someplace else, management (one person) signed of on it and that's as far as it went. Today, it's supposed to be "right" for the overall business andf the needs of "interested parties". Committing to "exceeding customer expectations" (in ALOT of policys) can't BE policy for everyone, when all that customers want is to make it to the agreed spec...

Ignoreing it as an "ant hill" is what gets ISO a bad name with top people.
When you commit to "exceed customer expectation" you must have an objective to support that. And once you have exceeded that goal, the becomes your new target objective.
  Post Number #31  
Old 8th July 2016, 07:55 AM
Mike S.

 
 
Total Posts: 2,146
Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Joe Smith View Post

No problem for us. We've never included that actual phrase "a commitment to comply with requirements" as it seems redundant. If we're certificated to the standard, and we're maintaining and improving the QMS, the commitment is implicit. Our CB (BSI) has never questioned it over the past 18 years that I administered the system.
Gee, Joe, how did your company ever survive, let alone thrive, without checking every conceivable box in the ISO requirements checklist!

Maybe you never were complying with requirements, no matter what objective evidence to the contrary may exist, because your quality policy is lacking the magic words!!!!
Thanks to Mike S. for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #32  
Old 8th July 2016, 09:14 AM
Joe Smith

 
 
Total Posts: 10
Re: "Context of the Organization" in 4.1 of ISO 9001

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Mike S. View Post

Gee, Joe, how did your company ever survive, let alone thrive, without checking every conceivable box in the ISO requirements checklist!

Maybe you never were complying with requirements, no matter what objective evidence to the contrary may exist, because your quality policy is lacking the magic words!!!!
Ha! Thanks, Mike. Yes, remarkable, isn't it, I don't know how we've got along without those few words. I notice in the 2015 standard that they've changed it slightly, so the policy is supposed to include "a commitment to satisfy applicable requirements." How mealy-mouthed is that? As if certificating your company to a written standard isn't commitment enough.

And as far as our existing policy being compatible with the purpose and context of our company and supporting our strategic direction - well, I don't see anything INcompatible about it, so I reckon we'll leave it alone. If they don't like it, they can just tell us and we'll talk about it.
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