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Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

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definitions, effectiveness, iso 9001:2015, performance measureables
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  Post Number #1  
Old 21st June 2016, 07:28 AM
armani

 
 
Total Posts: 127
Please Help! Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

Can somebody tell me a clear difference between performance and effectiveness - e.g. : see ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1 "performance and effectiveness of QMS"?
If a process is effective (vs. objectives established), it doesn't mean is performant? I mean, objectives are established for performance, no?

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  Post Number #2  
Old 21st June 2016, 07:48 AM
pkost

 
 
Total Posts: 824
Re: Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

I interpret this to be: performance is what it is regardless of objectives. e.g. complaints are closed on average in 10 days

If the objective is to close complaints in 5 days the process is ineffective (when considered in isolation).

This is overly simplified for illustrative purposes, but should help
Thanks to pkost for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #3  
Old 21st June 2016, 08:21 AM
armani

 
 
Total Posts: 127
Re: Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

But how can I assess performance, if I haven't established objectives? ISO 9001 requires assessing performance...
  Post Number #4  
Old 21st June 2016, 08:26 AM
dsanabria

 
 
Total Posts: 1,370
Re: Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by armani View Post

Can somebody tell me a clear difference between performance and effectiveness - e.g. : see ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1 "performance and effectiveness of QMS"?
If a process is effective (vs. objectives established), it doesn't mean is performant? I mean, objectives are established for performance, no?
FROM the IAQG Dictionary

Performance = aspects of an item observed or measured from its operation or function.
NOTE 1: These aspects are generally quantified. (EN 13701:2001) [IAQG-history]

Effectiveness = extent to which planned activities are realized and planned results achieved. (ISO 9000:2005) [IAQG-history]
Thanks to dsanabria for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #5  
Old 21st June 2016, 09:11 AM
tony s's Avatar
tony s

 
 
Total Posts: 138
Re: Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

Using the definition of ISO 9000:2015:

3.7.8 Performance - measurable result
Note 1. Performance can relate to either quantitative or qualitative findings.

3.7.11 Effectiveness - extent to which planned activities are realized and planned results are achieved


Performance may not necessarily relate to positive result. Hence the term "poor performance".

Effectiveness has levels such as terms like "to some extent", "to the fullest extent"
Thank You to tony s for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 21st June 2016, 12:50 PM
DRAMMAN

 
 
Total Posts: 220
Re: Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

So can you now get a non-conformance for not meting metric goals?
  Post Number #7  
Old 21st June 2016, 12:58 PM
howste's Avatar
howste

 
 
Total Posts: 5,055
Re: Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by DRAMMAN View Post

So can you now get a non-conformance for not meting metric goals?
You can if there are no actions taken when goals are not met. But that was true with the 2008 version also.
  Post Number #8  
Old 22nd June 2016, 01:43 AM
armani

 
 
Total Posts: 127
Re: Performance vs. Effectiveness - ISO 9001:2015 par. 9.1.1

Back to my original question, can I assess performance without assessing effectiveness and viceversa??
Why ISO specifies the 2 of them if they are so close related?
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