The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer


Elsmar XML RSS Feed
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links




Courtesy Quick Links


Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support:

Jennifer Kirley's
Conway Business Services


Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC



International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Organization for Standardization - ISO Standards and Information

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags
definitions, design engineering company, products and services
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 10th August 2017, 06:14 PM
WilBryan

 
 
Total Posts: 27
Question Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer

So Im struggling a little here and likely overthinking it...
9000:2015 defines:
"Product" as the output of an organization that can be produced without any transaction taking place between the organization and the customer.
and defines:
"Service" as the output of an organization with at least one activity necessarily performed between the organization and the customer.

Our company builds custom engineered capital equipment (precision automation cells and high-level assemblies for the same). It would be impossible to build these devices without in depth customer communication and cooperation on all levels.

According to the above definitions, do we have a product or are we a service provider? If read in the literal it would appear we are in the rare category of a service with a deliverable.
Not really sure it will impact how we approach the standard, but I am really curious about everyone's opinion on the topic.
thanks in advance for all insight and opinions...
have at it folks!

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 10th August 2017, 06:30 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,794
re: Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer

Your output is clearly a (tangible/hardware) PRODUCT. But, and obviously, you have a component of interactions with the customer. Probably some of the interactions, described as service delivery, would happen when installing the equipment, training users, etc...

You buy a car and, obviously, the product quality is critical, but, as you bring the car in for service, you expect the experience to be pleasant as well.

These are not mutually exclusive.
Sponsored Links

  Post Number #3  
Old 11th August 2017, 07:32 AM
WilBryan

 
 
Total Posts: 27
Re: Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer

But a car can be manufactured without my input as a customer.
The automation we build is not possible to create without deep recurring interaction with the customer.

Is a portrait taken by a photographer(or captured by painter) a product or a service? It is an output with an activity necessarily performed with the customer. It is certainly not a product as it could not be created without a customer interaction.

Installation is clearly a service, but my question goes to the definition of the actual physical deliverable. According to the current definition is it a product if it is not executable without the customer?

Can a single piece of hardware be both a service and a product?
  Post Number #4  
Old 11th August 2017, 10:32 AM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,794
Re: Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by WilBryan View Post

Can a single piece of hardware be both a service and a product?
Most products these days have a combination of tangible and intangible components. That's how Starbucks can justify a $5 cup of coffee. They are not selling you coffee. They are providing you with the Starbucks experience.
Thanks to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #5  
Old 11th August 2017, 02:58 PM
yodon

 
 
Total Posts: 955
Re: Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer

I feel your pain and frustration. My company provides design services. These efforts produce tangible artifacts (design documentation, etc.). My customer, takes what we do to create a product that can be reproduced in manufacturing and sold. We have no stake in the "product."

I've struggled with this for years and so have our auditors (it always took years to have them come to grips with what we do and how the standard applies to us... and then the auditor would change. Lather, rinse, repeat). We tried the tack of our 'product' being service but I think that got a bit messy in places.

Sorry I can't offer any answers, though. It ended up evolving into a "pick your battles" situation
Thanks to yodon for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 14th August 2017, 10:10 AM
WilBryan

 
 
Total Posts: 27
Re: Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sidney Vianna View Post

Most products these days have a combination of tangible and intangible components. That's how Starbucks can justify a $5 cup of coffee. They are not selling you coffee. They are providing you with the Starbucks experience.
Exactly why I am having such a hard time understanding why the IOS has chosen to draw such a hard line between the two. I find it an interesting choice and wonder what the intended wisdom they are trying to communicate is.

or maybe I just overthink things
  Post Number #7  
Old 14th August 2017, 10:59 AM
howste's Avatar
howste

 
 
Total Posts: 4,883
Re: Product or Service? Custom Engineered Capital Equipment Manufacturer

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by WilBryan View Post

or maybe I just overthink things
^ This. The same requirements exist whether it's a product or a service. Don't lose any sleep over it.
Thanks to howste for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > >

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Human Capital: How to Meet Requirements of 7.6 (Monitoring/Measuring Equipment)? GStough Service Industry Specific Topics 10 1st May 2012 03:29 PM
OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) Calibration of In-House Measurement Equipment GoKats78 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 18 7th September 2010 02:16 PM
Approved Supplier List - R & D, Capital Equipment Ironcountry ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4 20th February 2008 11:25 AM
Manufacturer' Service Provider - Calibration of inspection test equipment Dmokong - 2009 General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6 29th March 2007 01:20 AM
Custom hardware product - What acceptable quality level (AQL) is expected in the US? apestate AQL - Acceptable Quality Level 4 14th May 2004 08:55 AM



The time now is 05:31 PM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


 
 
 


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"