Customer generated PURCHASE ORDERS Customer only sends Schedules

[Skilz]

Hi All,

Can anybody tell me if there is a specific requirement under ISO 9001:2015 relating to customer PO. What needs to be included on the PO from the customer.

In my company, certain customers only send "Schedules" through to our Customer Services department, which takes them ages to try and make out what the order is and when it is needed.

Should there be information like, product stock codes, costing, etc?

 

[John Broomfield]

Hi All,

Can anybody tell me if there is a specific requirement under ISO 9001:2015 relating to customer PO. What needs to be included on the PO from the customer.

In my company, certain customers only send "Schedules" through to our Customer Services department, which takes them ages to try and make out what the order is and when it is needed.

Should there be information like, product stock codes, costing, etc?

Skilz,

What does your organization promise to do for its customers?

Unless your customers claim conformity to ISO 9001 you are unable to impose any of its requirements on them.

Even then citing your customer’s nonconformity can be tricky.

For your organization to accept schedules as orders suggests they are issued under a master agreement or contract that may specify the requirements for your services and products.

In any case ISO 9001 (clause 8.2.3) obliges your organization to ensure that it has enough information to understand customer requirements before it accepts the order. Clause 8.2.3 also requires your organization to review these requirements to ensure that it has the capability to fulfill them.

Instead of “taking ages” why is your customer services team not talking to the customers who provide insufficient information to obtain the missing information so your organization can then deliver quality services and products?

Not until you have a clear basis for your promise can then keep it.

John

 

[Ninja]

FWIW, most of the Tier I auto that we served had the master agreement to which John refers.

For daily or weekly "orders", we were required to log onto their software system to follow their "demand". In my experience, all shipment demand changed every day, including what you should have shipped yesterday or last week.

We were required to ship on any given day what their software had for demand as of 8AM that day. By noon it had changed again, but we were responsible to ship what their system said at 8AM.
Of course, their system referenced only their internal stock codes, not ours...so we had to use a translator manually to see what it was that should ship.
We simply documented that process...no "Purchase Order" was involved outside of the estimated yearly quantity which was not binding.

This system did not violate either our ISO9001 or their TS16949. We had the information we needed to ship correctly, and simply took a screen-shot as verification that the day and time were correct.

PITA, yes. In violation of a standard, nope.

 

[Skilz]

Hi John,

Thank you for your info - I have just recently joined the company and just got to know about the problem on hand.
I am currently in conversation with customer services, Sales and the customer himself to try and find a happy medium for all.
I just also want to make sure I cover all basis from a ISO point of view as well.

 

[ScottK]

Hi All,

Can anybody tell me if there is a specific requirement under ISO 9001:2015 relating to customer PO. What needs to be included on the PO from the customer.

In my company, certain customers only send "Schedules" through to our Customer Services department, which takes them ages to try and make out what the order is and when it is needed.

Should there be information like, product stock codes, costing, etc?

Customer is going to send what the customer is going to send, it's up to you to translate the customer requirements into your QMS.


Getting them to order the way you want them to order is part of relationship building. Maybe send them an order form you'd like them to use... many probably will, but some won't. With those it's up to you to decline the business or put the time into translating it.


A "schedule" sounds like a blanket order is in place for a period of time... perhaps you should reflect on how your order intake handles those.

 

[John Broomfield]

Hi John,

Thank you for your info - I have just recently joined the company and just got to know about the problem on hand.
I am currently in conversation with customer services, Sales and the customer himself to try and find a happy medium for all.
I just also want to make sure I cover all basis from a ISO point of view as well.

Skilz,

Excellent!

This is part of your orientation when you’ll learn how your new employer works as a system.

Please let us in on the answer to this mystery.

Thanks,

John

 

[Skilz]

Thanks to all,

John I most certainly will keep you posted of the developments. I know we have a meeting planned early Sept to meet with the customer

 

[Sidney Vianna]

In my company, certain customers only send "Schedules" through to our Customer Services department, which takes them ages to try and make out what the order is and when it is needed.

A "schedule" sounds like a blanket order is in place for a period of time... perhaps you should reflect on how your order intake handles those.

What Scott said. When a customer just sends updated schedule deliveries, that is normally part of an LTA (Long Term Agreement) where all the technical and commercial aspects of the deliveries have been agreed upon for an extended period of time via a contract and deliveries are tied to this contract.

Maybe your customer service group has a high turnover of personnel and they are not aware of the LTA.

 

[Marc]

Customer is going to send what the customer is going to send, it's up to you to translate the customer requirements into your QMS.

Yup, so true...

Getting them to order the way you want them to order is part of relationship building. Maybe send them an order form you'd like them to use... many probably will, but some won't. With those it's up to you to decline the business or put the time into translating it.

A "schedule" sounds like a blanket order is in place for a period of time... perhaps you should reflect on how your order intake handles those.

I have seen long term contracts where the customer submits something mid-contract like an unexpected print change. All submissions should reviewed in an appropriate manner against any existing agreement(s)/contract(s). Think Contract Review.

Having seen this type of thing, a customer can have expectations (or a blindness to contract specifics) which blew up into major disagreements, especially with regard to mid-contract print changes and with regard to quantities. Plus what Sidney said

here