What qualifies as "lean experience"?

[Harold P]

I would like to get feedback from other users regarding what qualifies as “lean experience” in today’s job market. I admit this is in part for selfish reasons but hopefully we can have a good discussion around this topic because I would assume (and yes I know what assuming can do) if I have the question others must as well.

A little bit about my background. I worked as a consultant for about four years. During this time I was new to the process improvement industry and I had heard of lean, but did not know much about it. As a consultant I introduced clients to and trained them on concepts such as changeover reduction, problem solving, waste reduction and standardizing work processes. We also would use process mapping (which after learning more about lean was actually more like value stream mapping) in order to layout the whole process and identify poor flow and identify unnecessary processes. I will say as an “evil” consultant we gave no regard to the respect for people piece of lean. In fact one of the things we almost always did was to recommend letting people go. It wasn’t until about two years ago that I was introduced to lean officially. Until that time when I thought of lean all I thought of was cleaning, trhowing things away and lines on the floor. Once I went through some basic lean training I was surprised to see how much of the concepts I had been using. It took me about a year to go through my training class and since I started my introduction I have been practicing the various elements. I have led Kaizen events on 5S (now that I know it’s about more than cleaning and lines), quick changeover and waste reduction. My team and I have worked to create a Hoshin Plan and we have completed both a current and future state VSM.

Based on this information would you say that I have six years of lean experience or less than two? The last thing I would want to do when looking at another opportunity is misrepresent myself or to waste time looking at positions I may not be considered qualified for.

Harold

 

[BradM]

Harold, I'm not sure about the years experience thing. But... you have listed various activities that you performed. I think those would be good skills/traits to put on your resume for a job.

 

[wmarhel]

Hi Harold,

For me, it isn't so much the number of years of experience with Lean that I look at on the resume; so much as how that resume portrays that experience. I look at how the terms are used and the results described. I especially consider whether this person portrays their experience as that of a one-man army who is running through the facility doing it all.

Red flags for me are terms like Lean tools, toolbox, Lean Six Sigma, Lean *insert belt color here*, etc. Depending on how that experience is portrayed may or may not contribute to moving on to the next step. If someone really touts their expertise and knowledge, they better come prepared if they get a face-to-face interview. They can expect to spend a lot of the time with me on the shop floor getting grilled. My number one question once we get to an area, "Tell me what you see." I will do very little prodding for information because I want to understand what level of detail you can identify waste, why you consider it a waste, and if you have any potential solutions without it requiring me to lead you down a path.

The biggest thing I always look for is whether or not you directed a transformation, where you ended up before moving on, and what the results were. I'm especially interested in how well the processes are sustaining themselves after you left.

I just interviewed two manufacturing engineer candidates this past week. Both are relatively inexperienced (only out of school a few years), but their biggest selling point for me was they were eager to learn, took a lot of notes and they asked good questions. I can work with that and put plenty of energy into getting them developed. They also had a demeanor that would work well on the shopfloor in getting people to come around to a different line of thinking.

Regards,

Wayne

 

[Wes Bucey]

I would like to get feedback from other users regarding what qualifies as “lean experience” in today’s job market. I admit this is in part for selfish reasons but hopefully we can have a good discussion around this topic <SNIP>
It wasn’t until about two years ago that I was introduced to lean officially. Until that time when I thought of lean all I thought of was cleaning, trhowing things away and lines on the floor. Once I went through some basic lean training I was surprised to see how much of the concepts I had been using. It took me about a year to go through my training class and since I started my introduction I have been practicing the various elements. I have led Kaizen events on 5S (now that I know it’s about more than cleaning and lines), quick changeover and waste reduction. My team and I have worked to create a Hoshin Plan and we have completed both a current and future state VSM.

Based on this information would you say that I have six years of lean experience or less than two? The last thing I would want to do when looking at another opportunity is misrepresent myself or to waste time looking at positions I may not be considered qualified for.

Harold

Frankly, when you ask whether I would say you have six years versus two of Lean experience, my response would be you had one year of learning Lean buzz words.

My advice would be to tell the complete truth about your experience (were you the lead consultant or part of a team? what processes did you help implement that worked and continue to be used? what worked? what didn't? why?)

In the occupation discussion threads listed below, we explore what you should write in your resume and cover letter when contemplating a change in job status. The basic points are:

1. don't lie [by exaggerating or inflating the responsibility and authority in your work history]
2. do enough research to learn what skills and experience the organization NEEDS
3. frame your cover letter and resume to demonstrate how you can satisfy that need [not merely a list of job titles, but an example of a similar need in a previous situation and how you, PERSONALLY, were able to satisfy that need]
4. be prepared to back up the statements in the cover letter and resume during a phone or face to face interview [lots of folks can write or copy great resumes, but they expose the exaggerations when they stammer and stumble when trying to recall and describe the activities to the interviewer]

Thinking about a New Job for New Year?
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=19619
Resume and cover letter - How good are yours?
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=10169
The Job Hunt - Care and feeding of references
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=19094
Tips to get past the "gatekeeper" when job hunting
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9325

 

[Harold P]

Brad and Wayne, thanks for your feedback. Wes I’m not sure how to take yours, it seems somewhat condescending and yes I admit that I could be taking it the wrong way. However, I take offense to the suggestion I spent a year “learning lean buzz words especially when you have no idea what I was doing. I spent a year trying to understand how the lean process works, versus some of the tactics I had learned while consulting, and how the various elements pull together. This was not in a classroom but on the floor applying little bits of knowledge and “lean tools” in various places in our organization.

Wayne, when you say red flags do you mean you see them as negatives or that they grab your attention? Thanks again for sharing your viewpoint, it definitely helps to know how a hiring manager (which it sounds like you are) looks at things. This is the type of feedback and discussion I was hoping to have around the subject.

Wes, I do appreciate the links and other resume suggestions although that’s not necessarily what I was looking for here. I will look through it and revisit my resume.

While I was looking for feedback on my personal experience I did not intend for that to be the focus of this thread. I just put it out there to get people’s opinion. What I was hoping to understand is how other lean focused individuals, especially those with hiring authority, look for in terms of “lean experience”. When looking at Six Sigma it’s easy to know when you are or are not qualified for a particular position based on whether they are looking for a GB, BB, or MBB. When it comes to lean it is not that easy.

 

[Wes Bucey]

The sentences I picked up on in your initial post were

Based on this information would you say that I have six years of lean experience or less than two? The last thing I would want to do when looking at another opportunity is misrepresent myself or to waste time looking at positions I may not be considered qualified for.

My answer, based on the information in the post was exactly what I would say to anyone with only that limited amount of information. If I can't read your mind to divine what else you did during the period in question, neither should you expect a prospective employer to read your mind.

I consult with employers and prospective employees on a daily basis. Good employers want FACTS, not buzzwords. Good prospects describe the VALUE they could and would bring to the organization. Bad prospects throw out a bunch of buzzwords and expect the world to beat a path to their door. Getting a new, worthwhile position entails marketing yourself to best advantage.

For the record, I didn't intend to be "condescending," merely express a frank opinion.

 

[wmarhel]

Wayne, when you say red flags do you mean you see them as negatives or that they grab your attention? Thanks again for sharing your viewpoint, it definitely helps to know how a hiring manager (which it sounds like you are) looks at things. This is the type of feedback and discussion I was hoping to have around the subject.

Hi Harold,

I view the terms such: Lean tools, toolbox, Lean Six Sigma, Lean *insert belt color here*, etc.; as red flags in a negative manner. They represent an incomplete understanding of the principles used and how they work to create a very powerful system. Check out my POST here on this forum for additional perspective. It doesn't necessarily mean a deal breaker for the candidate, but it sheds some light on their understanding.

Ultimately though, my primary concern is how the hiring of a person will bring value to the organization. It doesn't have to be Lean, it could be DFT (Demand Flow Technology), skills in the Shainin methodology, etc. Your skills and knowledge need to be able to transfer to my environment/s, and that is what you must convince the person doing the interview.

Wayne

 

[DanteCaspian]

I would like to get feedback from other users regarding what qualifies as “lean experience” in today’s job market.

Surviving it at least once, where involvement included measurable culture change, measurable improvements in profit gains, waste elimination and increased optimization.
If you can survive and have something to show, or leave something behind, that is experience... no matter on what level or how long it took. The depth of that level, how does that measure for time, as you are asking? Depends on the workplace and what was done.... time in is not as important. You could say, you "have extensive knowledge of the philosophy of lean as well as strong familiarity with many of the core lean tools, as implemented with success over the last ____ years".