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Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
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Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?
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View Poll Results: Is 'Lean' hype?
Yes 64 28.44%
No 135 60.00%
I prefer to abstain from the poll 26 11.56%
Voters: 225. You may not vote on this Poll because you are not Logged In.

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lean, lean manufacturing
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  Post Number #185  
Old 14th November 2016, 02:04 PM
Bev D's Avatar
Bev D

Total Posts: 3,581
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

Mikael - you clearly do not understand what Lean is. Your belief of what lean is, is not correct. Lean isn't about stock levels. Lean is about increasing velocity and capacity through the continual reduction of waste. KanBan (or inventory regulators that limit inventory to min/max levels) are only a TOOL in a SYSTEM of tools to achieve the goal. You are debating a false definition of Lean.

I posted 3 critical articles on your other thread. I would suggest that fi you are truly interested in understanding Lean, that you read them and then come back. As it is you are just bashing something you know little about...

sorry if this sounds harsh but really we have a responsibility to truly understand our topics before we argue against them...

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  Post Number #186  
Old 14th November 2016, 03:04 PM

Total Posts: 213
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

Bev D please with all respect, I actually do have references for my claim.
Have you read Krafcik? I think it is fair to state that stock level originally was/should be the root.

I have read late articles/book on the subject (I will see if I can find time to follow up on the the one you refer too, fair enough, I have done womack), and yes I do fully understand that it is much more.
My claim in my former post was, that since it was not sexy enough it was expanded . Though that it is conspiracy it does not change the fact, that in my world all this "extra" is not impressive at all.
I would like to cut what I think is actually bad, and use lean as a meaningful word compared to buffer.

Perhaps you read me wrong? You think I believe that all the Lean descriptions is only about stock level, I do know and fully agree that this is not true. I just "disagree" with these approaches.

I do think that you have read and know way more about TPS/Lean than I do, and I am open to the fact that I misunderstood it, and if I read Krafcik wrong please argue, but please understand that I did try to study it and when I come with quotes and references please do respect that it is not just something that I made up.

Last edited by Mikael; 14th November 2016 at 03:18 PM.
  Post Number #187  
Old 14th November 2016, 03:50 PM
Bev D's Avatar
Bev D

Total Posts: 3,581
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

I respect the fact that you are quoting someone and you didn't make it up. But Krakcik isn't the expert. He didn't originate TPS or Lean. Eh is credited with coining the term 'lean', but all of those who worked with him (and he wasn't the lead) on The Machine that Changed the World from which the term Lean sprang into our lexicon would also tell you the same thing. He may have gotten it wrong or you are taking a single thing he said out of context. I repeat - despite your opinion, lean is not about stocking levels. that is simply and thoroughly incorrect. you can call a duck a train but it's still a duck.
read the masters. Kafcik isn't a master
  Post Number #188  
Old 14th November 2016, 04:16 PM

Total Posts: 213
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

hmm, I thought Kafcik and Womack worked closely together?

"Triumph of the Lean Production System" was from Fall 1988, his note 4 is interesting.
Its very long time since I went into "The Machine that Changed the World" but I think it is from 1990?
Yes, I know it was part of the program and research that goes years back, but isn't the same for Kafcik? I made another thread to discuss history btw.

Edit: oh sorry, I see that you found the other thread https://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=69174

Last edited by Mikael; 14th November 2016 at 04:34 PM.
  Post Number #189  
Old 14th November 2016, 05:47 PM
Bev D's Avatar
Bev D

Total Posts: 3,581
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

This is my last post in this thread.

Here is a blog concerning the original article that Mikael references. the original article (Triumph of the Lean System) is available for free at LEI's website.

This article was written in 1988 and it was based on research that was being done on the difference between Toyota and other manufacturers. It was BEFORE Womack or Kafcik or any other US citizen had much - if any - direct experience in the Toyota Production System. It does support the use of the Lean Management System, but it is clearly early days. None the less it appears that Mikael is mis-interpreting some points in the article (perhaps by taking them out of context?) or at a minimum not clearly articulating his point that Lean is BS.

Lean is a holistic system based on culture that accelerates value and creates capacity by continually reducing waste. Lean is not a collection of tools, nor is it reducible to one 'root' of a stocking philosophy. In fact inventory reduction is one of many results of waste reduction not a means unto itself. The articles I referenced in the history of Lean thread are listed below. If you are interested in a deeper introduction to TPS/Lean I recommend these articles.

"The Birth of Lean Conversations with Taiichi Ohno, Eiji Toyoda and
other figures who shaped Toyota management ", The Lean Enterprise Institute, Cambridge, Massachussetts
available at www.lean.org

"Remembering What Ohno and Shingo Said", Bob Emiliani and David Stec The Center for Lean Business Management Kensington, Connecticut. See this thread, post #3 for the article. it is attached. (thanks to Bob Emiliani for granting permission to post it)

Decoding the DNA of the Toyota Production System, by Steven Spear and H. Kent Brown. Harvard Business Review.
available at www.hbrreprints.org

Lean has been co-opted and corrupted by hack consultants that represent Lean as a set of tools and not always a complete set of tools. That 'fake lean' is just that: fake. It is not real Lean. Let me be clear: Fake Lean is deplorable. Fake lean is hype. Real Lean is not; real Lean is the Toyota Production System. TPS is NOT hype.

Last edited by Bev D; 15th November 2016 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Deleted dead live link. (http://thecibm.com)
Thanks to Bev D for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #190  
Old 15th November 2016, 10:28 AM

Total Posts: 213
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

Thank you. I still think you might misunderstood my world, I will try to follow up.
I have at least 3 modes:

1. How it is today according to the experts (not the misunderstood).
So far what you have described and said, please, I think we fully agree here. So far I dont have the feeling that I misunderstood anything from Lean.
Likewise we can agree on the color, consistence and taste of beer. Though assume you like it and I don't, fair enough.

2. Early lean.
I refer to this source from 1988, I dont say that inventory level is the only thing mentioned. Though it is compared with the "buffer" approach and I read it like inventory is a central part of it. You disagree, fair enough, I might take an English course.
My claim is that from 1990 there was a shift, it was made more commercial (sexy), or should I say manageable, they would properly not admit that today, but I have noted your late source talking about origins, thx.

3. How it according to me should be used.
I dont believe in Womack TPS/Lean 1990 and up, and I guess you love it, fair enough, different worlds.

When I take my critical glasses on, I dont buy it, "so far", I have better options, and the only thing left that makes sense to me is number 2 approach, the rest is overhyped to me. You think I should read even more on the stuff I dont like, fair enough. If you haven't already may I suggest that you read the Against lean article.

If I should go truly into detail with my critical view and argue against both the tools that are not there and the whole holistic idea, it might take me a whole book and lots of time. I dont have that option, sorry.

Some like red some like blue.
  Post Number #191  
Old 9th February 2017, 05:12 AM

Total Posts: 25
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

Lean manufacturing is about to make positive changes without spending and real dollars.

The element of lean manufacturing is Kaizen Gemba Visual Work place and standard Work for leader. Kaizen is just term for continues improvement. Gemba is management walking and talking with employees working out what is going on, Of course they must pay respect to the workforce as they are there to ensure the product is good for sale and it is the product that make the money.

A Kaizen Blitz event is to determine an area to attack. Appoint a Team leader, Tracker and a scribe. A List of item to approve is created with the member of the team including the SME. It is similar to 5S in taking before an after pictures. Kaizen event it meant to be more effective by working on stream lining processes, Improve the processes and improve the safety. All the item for improvement are assigned to personnel to action and a time line is given when the all the process to be finished by. One would expect that 75% of task is finished on the same day. Where the item that require item and tool to be ordered in to be complete in a couple of day. Hence it is called the blitz.

Nothing more different than back yard family and friend over to help setting up a pergola or paint the house. all in good time and have few laughs at the end.
  Post Number #192  
Old 9th February 2017, 08:50 AM
Mike S.

Total Posts: 2,200
Re: Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

In Reply to Parent Post by matti View Post

Nothing more different than back yard family and friend over to help setting up a pergola or paint the house. all in good time and have few laughs at the end.
Lean is a tool or set of tools and like any tools they can be used properly for good or improperly and cause harm. Sadly, like many quality and improvement practices, lean is rarely implemented properly by people who know how to do it right, and it causes more harm or waste than good.

The laughs that we hear at the end are often those of the employees laughing at Management as they stumble around, pretending to know what the hell they are doing, as they goof things up even more than they were already.

Rant over....

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