Another ISO 9001 Clause 7.3 dilemma - Two organizations under one roof

R

rlsavard

I've run into a question that I haven't found a solution for. I've looked through the archives, on other websites, but still haven't found a definitive answer.

Our situation is that we have a machining company (company A). Company A is going for ISO 9001 certification. We also started a new company (company B) that offers its own product line. Both companies are in the same building, use the same employees, etc. Company B orders a product from company A which includes a drawing, just like any other customer we do business with. The only thing that is hanging me up is the fact that the people making these drawings work for both companies simultaneously.

I would like to exclude 7.3 if possible, so what are your thoughts?
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
Re: Another 7.3 dilemma - Two organizations under one roof

If design actually takes place at Company A, it can not be excluded. The scope of registration involves Company A, and it does not matter what other activities (Company B) the engineers are engaged in. BTW, 7.3 is not as bad as most people think. ;)

Stijloor.
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
Isn't the bigger question 'Why are you going for certification covering only part of the scope of your company's business?'

Surely if you believe in quality management you would want it to cover all areas of your company's activity ... so why not the same for your ISO certification? :confused:
 
1

12stones

I'm still not sure what the problem is. If company A is the only company going for ISO certification, then it's the only one required to have any QMS. If company A has design activities, then you need to include them in the scope of registration and in the QMS. The fact that the same employees work for both companies doesn't matter as long as the design requirements are being met for company A.
 
T

TamTom

Hello,

you can have one certificate that cover both companies and the scope could make clear which company covers 7.3 and which not. We have a trading company that exclude 7.3 and one smaller that have it, it is part of the scope to define that.

Regards,

TamTom
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
I've run into a question that I haven't found a solution for. I've looked through the archives, on other websites, but still haven't found a definitive answer.

Our situation is that we have a machining company (company A). Company A is going for ISO 9001 certification. We also started a new company (company B) that offers its own product line. Both companies are in the same building, use the same employees, etc. Company B orders a product from company A which includes a drawing, just like any other customer we do business with. The only thing that is hanging me up is the fact that the people making these drawings work for both companies simultaneously.

I would like to exclude 7.3 if possible, so what are your thoughts?

rlsavard,

Define the scope of the management system you are concerned about and you will see the answer to your question. System scope matters more than the same roof, the same employees or different companies.

The scope of the system may be the same as or more than the scope of certification.

From a risk management (liability) point of view it pays to identify the designer. Do they have design under control or are they (intentionally) ignoring the national standard for quality management systems? Considering product liability has nothing to do with system certification but with due care and attention in bringing the product to market.

John
 

somashekar

Leader
Admin
As you are very clear with what company A does and what company B does., no matter same building or same people, company B designs and company A is the contract manufacturer who produces per the design supplied.
So company A ISO 9001 certification is design excluded with a justification why it stands excluded.

NOTE:
You could do a whole lot of things like have one full scope certification for company A and B, Merge A and B and have a single company and one full scope certification and so on ... But if you are clear like what you have explained about status of company A and B, then no dilemma at all. Company A ISO 9001 clause 7.3 can be excluded.
 
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