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NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
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NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise
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NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise


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Some Related Topic Tags
nonconformances, nonconformance system, corrective action (ca)
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  Post Number #1  
Old 18th July 2006, 03:22 AM
Rajeeva

 
 
Total Posts: 30
Question NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

Hi,

I would like to initiate a discussion on the usage of Non-conformance report forms and Corrective Action Request forms at appropriate forums. I am not sure whether this thread already exists. Inviting all to contribute

Rajeev

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  Post Number #2  
Old 18th July 2006, 08:03 AM
Sambasi

 
 
Total Posts: 85
Re: NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

A "NC" can occur at any stage:right from suppliers, through process stages and from customers, besides audits.The observer of "NC" raises a NCR and asks for a "CAR" to the originator of the NC.The corrective action initiated can be a part of NCR/CAR.

A generic format applicable to all processes can be designed.

I am attaching a general format which is used for NCR/CAR containing corrective action initiated.
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before opening, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: doc (CPA-001) Rev. 0.doc (42.5 KB, 3468 views)
Thank You to Sambasi for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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  Post Number #3  
Old 19th July 2006, 12:58 AM
Rajeeva

 
 
Total Posts: 30
Re: NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Sambasi

A "NC" can occur at any stage:right from suppliers, through process stages and from customers, besides audits.The observer of "NC" raises a NCR and asks for a "CAR" to the originator of the NC.The corrective action initiated can be a part of NCR/CAR.

A generic format applicable to all processes can be designed.

I am attaching a general format which is used for NCR/CAR containing corrective action initiated.
I agree that anything which is not in compliance to the documented (internal or ISO 9001 or product specification) requirements is a non-conformance.

But the standard requires the non-conforming product should not be delivered to the Customer. So, raising non-conformance report must be restricted to materials or manufacturing processes. Where as the Corrective Action Request should be raised during the internal audits when there is a non-conformance in the system.

Any more light on this???


Rajeev
  Post Number #4  
Old 19th July 2006, 01:18 AM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,365
Re: NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Rajeeva

Hi,

I would like to initiate a discussion on the usage of Non-conformance report forms and Corrective Action Request forms at appropriate forums. I am not sure whether this thread already exists. Inviting all to contribute

Rajeev

Hello Rajeev,

A corrective action is a problem solving tool:
1. Failure Statement - Define and describe what is known about the problem,
2. Containment - Determine if any immediate action is needed to stop the bleeding,
3. Investigate and determine the Root Causes(s),
4. Determine what action(s) are needed to eliminate the Root Cause, and ensure the failure does not reoccur,
5. Verify the effectiveness in eliminating the Root Cause, and ensuring the failure does not reoccur.

IN TS, you must also evaluate whether this action should be applied to other similar processes.

This Corrective Action can be applied to any type of failure which you want to apply effective problem solving - Customer, Supplier, Internal Audit, External Audit, System failure.


A Nonconformance Report is generally used to identify an instance of nonconforming product. It usually identifies the failure, who and where identified, containment actions taken, disposition (what are we going to do with it), and rework instructions, if applicable.

It may or may not include the corrective action steps of root cause and actions, as described above.
Thank You to Helmut Jilling for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #5  
Old 19th July 2006, 05:22 AM
Rajeeva

 
 
Total Posts: 30
Re: NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by hjilling

Hello Rajeev,

A corrective action is a problem solving tool:
1. Failure Statement - Define and describe what is known about the problem,
2. Containment - Determine if any immediate action is needed to stop the bleeding,
3. Investigate and determine the Root Causes(s),
4. Determine what action(s) are needed to eliminate the Root Cause, and ensure the failure does not reoccur,
5. Verify the effectiveness in eliminating the Root Cause, and ensuring the failure does not reoccur.

IN TS, you must also evaluate whether this action should be applied to other similar processes.

This Corrective Action can be applied to any type of failure which you want to apply effective problem solving - Customer, Supplier, Internal Audit, External Audit, System failure.


A Nonconformance Report is generally used to identify an instance of nonconforming product. It usually identifies the failure, who and where identified, containment actions taken, disposition (what are we going to do with it), and rework instructions, if applicable.

It may or may not include the corrective action steps of root cause and actions, as described above.
Hi,

Thanks for the detailed comments. Correct me if my interpretation is wrong; are you saying that in simple words, the non-conformance report will be raised for the non-conforming manufacturing process/ product/ material where as Corrective Action Request will be raised when the system non-conformances are identified?

Rajeev
  Post Number #6  
Old 19th July 2006, 07:36 AM
Sambasi

 
 
Total Posts: 85
Re: NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

Quote:
But the standard requires the non-conforming product should not be delivered to the Customer. So, raising non-conformance report must be restricted to materials or manufacturing processes. Where as the Corrective Action Request should be raised during the internal audits when there is a non-conformance in the system.
Customer complaint (arising out of standard product supplied) is also a NC. In this case, the dept. which receives the complaint (sales or marketing) can raise a NCR/CAR to manufacturing

Last edited by Sambasi; 19th July 2006 at 07:46 AM.
  Post Number #7  
Old 19th July 2006, 07:42 AM
RoxaneB's Avatar
RoxaneB

 
 
Total Posts: 2,981
Re: NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

Personally, my organization takes a much more simple approach to this...one system, no matter the failure. Any failure be it a customer complaint, product discrepancy, process abnormality, audit finding...whatever...is a nonconformance. The process to resolve it (i.e., corrective action) is the same no matter the failure.

Why have two forms if the essence of the methodology to resolve it is the same?

One company...one methodology...one tool...one language...one culture.
Thanks to RoxaneB for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #8  
Old 19th July 2006, 08:15 AM
Rajeeva

 
 
Total Posts: 30
Re: NCR & CAR - How to use & where to raise

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by RCBeyette

Personally, my organization takes a much more simple approach to this...one system, no matter the failure. Any failure be it a customer complaint, product discrepancy, process abnormality, audit finding...whatever...is a nonconformance. The process to resolve it (i.e., corrective action) is the same no matter the failure.

Why have two forms if the essence of the methodology to resolve it is the same?

One company...one methodology...one tool...one language...one culture.
Hi,

Nice to see your comments!

I think it is necessary to have two different forms because the objectives are different. In the first one, the objective is to prevent the shipping/ handing over of non-conforming product to the Customer. Accordingly, the resolution may be repair to full conformance, reject or accept as is. So, when the resolution is accept as is or repair not meeting the full conformance, you require customer's permission.

In the second case (using CAR form), your intention is to ensure system compliance. In some cases, you can not take any remidial action as the activity might have completed long time back. So, at that time you can accept as is (because the system non-compliance might have not affected the product) and concerntrate on corrective action.

Regards,

Rajeev
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