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Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)
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Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)
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8d problem solving, corrective action (ca), cosmetic defects on parts and products, nonconformances, operator error, preventive action (pa)
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  Post Number #1  
Old 23rd August 2011, 04:09 AM
cqt18060180

 
 
Total Posts: 24
Please Help! Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)

Question on the CA and PA,

SOME Time i should reply 8D to customer, but i have some confesion on the CA AND PA,

eg.

cosmetic problem, cause by operaor handlding error so it means

training operator is the corrective action , what is the preventive action? revise document WI ?

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  Post Number #2  
Old 23rd August 2011, 04:30 AM
samsung's Avatar
samsung

 
 
Total Posts: 1,431
Re: Question on the CA and PA,

Since the problem has already occurred, no PA is applicable and possible either.
  Post Number #3  
Old 23rd August 2011, 10:29 AM
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somashekar

 
 
Total Posts: 5,362
Re: Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)

CA AND PA or CAPA are two methods of continual improvement.
There is no need to think of a PA after a CA for a noticed non conformance, in your case the cosmetic problem via the 8D to customer. You should rather work on how effective your CA has been in further eliminating such a defect. So revising document and any other sure steps that you take are the CA after finding the root cause of the problem
This learning can be such, that when you have an other cosmetic inspection requirement, you apply this and before hand prevent such cosmetic problem from surfacing. When you are so aware that you are applying the learning of an earlier corrective action, you are doing a preventive action and how effective this is for this new situation will again depend upon its effectiveness monitoring.
In both the cases you are continualy improving.
Logic: Once you have a problem and detect the root cause of it and take actions to eliminate it (CA) you will perform so smartly that the same problem due to that cause will not recur again in the future (PA)

Last edited by somashekar; 23rd August 2011 at 10:39 AM.
  Post Number #4  
Old 23rd August 2011, 10:38 AM
Ajit Basrur's Avatar
Ajit Basrur

 
 
Total Posts: 6,214
Re: Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by cqt18060180 View Post

Question on the CA and PA,

SOME Time i should reply 8D to customer, but i have some confesion on the CA AND PA,

eg.

cosmetic problem, cause by operaor handlding error so it means

training operator is the corrective action , what is the preventive action? revise document WI ?
We have lot of threads explaining what is CA and PA.

Pls remember that first you have to identify the root cause that happened this defect and then CA will eliminate the "cause" of the existing problem and PA addresses the potential (unhappened) issues.

So, in the example that you cited for Cosmetic problem, you have to first identify the root cause.
Thanks to Ajit Basrur for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #5  
Old 23rd August 2011, 09:15 PM
cqt18060180

 
 
Total Posts: 24
Re: Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by somashekar View Post

CA AND PA or CAPA are two methods of continual improvement.
There is no need to think of a PA after a CA for a noticed non conformance, in your case the cosmetic problem via the 8D to customer. You should rather work on how effective your CA has been in further eliminating such a defect. So revising document and any other sure steps that you take are the CA after finding the root cause of the problem
This learning can be such, that when you have an other cosmetic inspection requirement, you apply this and before hand prevent such cosmetic problem from surfacing. When you are so aware that you are applying the learning of an earlier corrective action, you are doing a preventive action and how effective this is for this new situation will again depend upon its effectiveness monitoring.
In both the cases you are continualy improving.
Logic: Once you have a problem and detect the root cause of it and take actions to eliminate it (CA) you will perform so smartly that the same problem due to that cause will not recur again in the future (PA)
For my case is cosmetic defected, easy to identified the cause and CA,

The root cause is the operator poor workmanship when use knife cutting the gate
CA: educate and training the operate the knife when degating by the revise WI
I propose to put PA like these: Operaotr selfcheck and make a pen mark on the degated position, ......
or Put N/A
  Post Number #6  
Old 24th August 2011, 12:31 PM
samsung's Avatar
samsung

 
 
Total Posts: 1,431
Re: Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by cqt18060180 View Post

[COLOR=blue]
I propose to put PA like these: Operaotr selfcheck and make a pen mark on the degated position, ......
or Put N/A
It's still a CA because you are taking action after a nonconformity has occurred. Furthermore, why it ("Operator self check and make a pen mark on the degated position,...") shouldn't be included in the WI that you proposed as CA?
  Post Number #7  
Old 24th August 2011, 03:13 PM
Boscoeee's Avatar
Boscoeee

 
 
Total Posts: 210
Re: Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by samsung View Post

It's still a CA because you are taking action after a nonconformity has occurred. Furthermore, why it ("Operator self check and make a pen mark on the degated position,...") shouldn't be included in the WI that you proposed as CA?
An effective corrective action corrects a problem and prevents it from occurring again.

Training in itself is not a complete corrective action, there should be some additional action to prevent the same problem from occurring again such as a Poke Yoke or error proofing activity.

As indicated by other Covers, Preventive Actions are those action that actually prevent a nonconformity.
  Post Number #8  
Old 24th August 2011, 04:10 PM
samsung's Avatar
samsung

 
 
Total Posts: 1,431
Re: Corrective Action and Preventive Action for Operator Error (Cosmetic - Handling)

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Boscoeee View Post

As indicated by other Covers, Preventive Actions are those action that actually prevent a nonconformity.
Agree but the CA too does the same thing, i.e. prevent a nonconformity. The actual difference between the two is that of terminology - recurring and occurring.
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