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Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures? - Page 4

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View Poll Results: One procedure or two
One procedure 336 58.84%
Got one, changing to two 39 6.83%
Two procedures 191 33.45%
I need more than two for my system (OUCH!!) 5 0.88%
Voters: 571. You may not vote on this Poll because you are not Logged In.

Some Related Topic Tags
capa (corrective and preventive action), corrective action (ca), preventive action (pa), procedures (general)
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  Post Number #25  
Old 5th June 2003, 01:29 PM
Mike Smith

Total Posts: 146
OK. I`m still stuck in the 94 mode. But anyway, to break the dictionary out, in mine continuous and continual mean the same thing.

Either way, I don`t believe running around trying to fix something or complete a requirement before the auditor arrives could be concidered CI. It is CA. Liike Al Dyer says, If you make an improvement to a stable process before the auditor arrives this would be CI.

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  Post Number #26  
Old 9th June 2003, 09:26 PM
JodiB's Avatar

Total Posts: 563
Wow. I just got into the whole CA vs PA thing with someone in my dept today. She was explaining our HSE audit process to me and was saying that CA was the thing that someone did to fix the one instance and PA was the actions they took to make sure it didn't happen again.

When I explained to her that, actually, a correction was what brought the one instance back to normalcy and CA was the actions taken to make sure it didn't happen again, she looked lost. She was like "no, it's preventive". She didn't see the difference between preventing something from happening the first time, and preventing it from happening a second or third time. She was focusing on the word "prevent" and figured since that word was used in both instances, they were the same thing.

Not the same thing. PA is to make sure you never experience the loss. Ever. Not even the first time.

Some may call it a semantics game, but actually there is good reason to separate the thought processes on the two activities. CA is handed to you on a platter. PA is a Search and Destroy.

But I agree that there are aspects that can be combined within a single written procedure and that information on both can be kept in a single database but with designations to identify them. We use a database reporting system for reporting observations and near misses as well as incidents and can easily run reports from it.
  Post Number #27  
Old 11th June 2003, 09:52 AM
Mike S.

Total Posts: 2,270

Nice to see you back! Where you been hidin'? Drop in more often -- we can always use more common sense around here!
  Post Number #28  
Old 11th June 2003, 09:11 PM
JodiB's Avatar

Total Posts: 563
Hey Mike, I've been hiding under that HSE rock. You know, the one that no one ever looks under for fear of someone screaming at them for handling such a heavy rock without proper PPE in place.

Just spent the whole day today in a meeting to spec out an upgrade to our incident reporting software and will spend the next two days doing the same with our driver safety program's hardware and software. Then after a full week next week of running safety reports and statistics, will head back into meetings to continue with more of the same. Fun, fun.

And as Randy can tell you, I spend most of what little time I have in the evenings still doing the real estate gig. (ask him how he got such groovy digs in Arkansas... )

But I still pop in here from time to time and will open my big mouth when subjects close to my heart get discussed..!
  Post Number #29  
Old 12th June 2003, 07:08 AM
Randy Stewart

Total Posts: n/a
Lightbulb Just a thought

This isn't a new problem by any means. What we found that worked the best was using the verbiage from the 8D format for the correction part - Interim and Permanent. That helps in the confusion with the preventive action that corrects a problem. If the Permanent Corrective Action from 1 process can be implemented in another, now it can be viewed as a Preventive Action. Our Continuous Improvment goes along the line of innovations (even if they don't work well) and new technologies.
For summation we look at Interim and Permanent Corrective Actions as "REACTIVE" actions. As stated before "the problem already occured".
Continuous Improvement is "PROACTIVE" actions, even if the action is copied from similar processes. The failure has not been experienced in the process before.
  Post Number #30  
Old 12th June 2003, 07:38 AM
Geoff Cotton's Avatar
Geoff Cotton

Total Posts: 224
We have separate CA and PA procedure / process.

Reasoning: a Corrective Action is an “INPUT” into our Preventive Action “PROCESS”.
  Post Number #31  
Old 12th June 2003, 09:06 AM
Manoj Mathur

Total Posts: 320
I have only one procedure for CAPA. and here it is.

pl. comment.
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before opening, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: doc corrective & preventive action-05 .doc (508.0 KB, 2901 views)
Thanks to Manoj Mathur for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #32  
Old 13th June 2003, 04:06 AM
Andrei Viorel - 2009

Total Posts: n/a
Look! Corrective/Preventive Procedure

We do have in our ISO system a Sub process “Nonconformity, Corrective/Preventive Actions” containing following documents:

Sub Process document, (flow chart, steps, KPIs,)
WI – Problem solving by team approach
WI – Decision making for problem solving
WI – Using database for Nonconformities/Problems, Corrective/ Preventive/ Improvements Actions, Causes, Action Plans
WI – Specific preventive actions for visual defects
WI – Using Fish bond diagram

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