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Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
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Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?
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View Poll Results: One procedure or two
One procedure 336 58.84%
Got one, changing to two 39 6.83%
Two procedures 191 33.45%
I need more than two for my system (OUCH!!) 5 0.88%
Voters: 571. You may not vote on this Poll because you are not Logged In.


Some Related Topic Tags
capa (corrective and preventive action), corrective action (ca), preventive action (pa), procedures (general)
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  Post Number #369  
Old 28th June 2008, 10:21 PM
Ajit Basrur's Avatar
Ajit Basrur

 
 
Total Posts: 6,096
Re: Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

This thread has given lot of views why the CA and PA could be either one / two procedures and now after 5 years, I do not think anything new is coming from this thread. Posters are justing adding on to the already expressed views.

I am in favour of closing this thread.

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  Post Number #370  
Old 28th June 2008, 11:04 PM
Big Jim

 
 
Total Posts: 2,822
Re: Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

Sidney wrote:

"Sorry, but that is incorrect. These are two separate DEFINITIONS. Not necessarily two separate procedures."

I don't think it is very clear. Even if they are combined into one procedure, how they are applied must be understood and in practice not mixed together. As I mentioned on an earlier post, I have a client that has combined them improperly. They only do corrective actions. They label them as "Corrective and Preventive Actions". To them, the preventive part is what they do to keep it from happening again. They make no effort to find or record anything they do about potential nonconformities. This is very dangerous. They refuse to do anything different. Since I'm a consultant there, I cannot write a nonconformance, and their 3rd party auditor hasn't caught it yet.

Here is the elements involved.

4.2.1 "The quality management system documentation shall include . . . documented procedures required by this international standard . . . NOTE 1 Where the term 'documented procedure appears within this International Standard, this means that the procedure is established, documented, implemented and maintained."

This establishes that you need certain procedures. The required procedures are called out in the standard. Two of them are the ones this thread is about.

8.5.2 Corrective action . . . "A documented procedure shall be established to define requirments for . . ."

8.5.3 Preventive action . . . "A documented procedure shall be established to define requirments for . . ."

Combine the procedures if you wish, but do it properly and make sure you address both actions you perform to prevent recurrence and actions you perform to prevent occurance. I much prefer to not combine them and cut the potential for misapplication.
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  Post Number #371  
Old 29th June 2008, 11:30 AM
winchm

 
 
Total Posts: 43
Re: Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

One of the best articles I read came from Larry Whittington's Newsletter on Auditing PA. Larry recommended Elsmar Cove to me for poll on most common findings.
Attached Files: 1. Scan for viruses before opening, 2. Please report any 'bad' files by Reporting this post, 3. Use at your Own Risk.
File Type: pdf Auditing Preventive Action.pdf (35.0 KB, 779 views)
Thanks to winchm for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #372  
Old 29th June 2008, 11:46 PM
sachinsdeokar

 
 
Total Posts: 5
Re: Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

but I think these are two differnt thinks & should have two differnt procedures
  Post Number #373  
Old 1st July 2008, 10:03 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,030
Re: Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

Poll closed - 1 July 2008
  Post Number #374  
Old 16th July 2008, 02:08 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,030
Re: Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Ajit Basrur View Post

This thread has given lot of views why the CA and PA could be either one / two procedures and now after 5 years, I do not think anything new is coming from this thread. Posters are justing adding on to the already expressed views.

I am in favour of closing this thread.
Thread closed - 080716
Thank You to Marc for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #375  
Old 19th August 2008, 02:21 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,030
Re: Preventive Action (PA) and Corrective Action (CA) - One or Two Procedures?

Also see: Are two separate procedures required for Corrective action and preventive action
Thanks to Marc for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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