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Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
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Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?
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  Post Number #9  
Old 3rd October 2013, 11:05 AM
Jim Wynne's Avatar
Jim Wynne

 
 
Total Posts: 14,162
Re: Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by NoSleep View Post

Thank you for your input I will look into that system as well and see if we can improve on it also. I have only been in this position with this company for a little over a year and the first year was truly a lot of putting out fires so I feel like I am just now getting the opportunity to help uncover areas that could be improved upon. Thank you again
You're walking around with a heavy solid object, trying to find a container that it will fit in. Think of the improvement process as being liquid and taking the shape of whatever container is used. It's the thing contained that's important, not the container. There is a perceived opportunity to make something better, so instead of trying to determine what to call it, just do it. Paul makes the good observation that you need to handle this in consonance with company policy, but you also need to look at the policy and make sure it allows enough leeway to be able to avoid wasting time on nomenclature.
Thanks to Jim Wynne for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #10  
Old 3rd October 2013, 12:18 PM
somashekar's Avatar
somashekar

 
 
Total Posts: 5,262
Re: Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by NoSleep View Post

I am in the middle of an internal audit of the training system. The training system is fairly basic; we outline in our SOP's what we are going to do for training and we do it. HOWEVER I have decided to take this audit in a deeper direction and cross reference internal (not customer reported) NCR's to a possible gap within the training system. I do believe I have found that our training system is lacking in content and while we do what we say we will do I don't think what we do is extensive enough. So does this fall into a Corrective Action Report area or does it fall under something else?

Thanks in advance
When you believed that your training system is lacking in content, I am sure you realized and believed it before being in the middle of an internal audit system. So when you begin to dig deeper into what you believed in an internal audit, you are more into fault finding, which is not the spirit and purpose of the internal audit process.
So when you complete your internal audit objectively and look for both positives and improvement areas, address your good intentions directly as a continual improvement process of the training system. During your next internal audit, get the training process audited by someone else to check on how effective your steps taken have yielded results.
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  Post Number #11  
Old 3rd October 2013, 12:39 PM
NoSleep

 
 
Total Posts: 12
Re: Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by somashekar View Post

When you believed that your training system is lacking in content, I am sure you realized and believed it before being in the middle of an internal audit system. So when you begin to dig deeper into what you believed in an internal audit, you are more into fault finding, which is not the spirit and purpose of the internal audit process.
So when you complete your internal audit objectively and look for both positives and improvement areas, address your good intentions directly as a continual improvement process of the training system. During your next internal audit, get the training process audited by someone else to check on how effective your steps taken have yielded results.
Actually it was NOT my intent to find fault but rather to see if there was something lacking and if there was a specific process within the factory that was being missed repeatedly. I did find positives and noted them within the audit as well.
Thanks to NoSleep for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #12  
Old 3rd October 2013, 03:58 PM
Mikishots's Avatar
Mikishots

 
 
Total Posts: 880
Re: Corrective Action Necessary? OR what is the best approach??

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by NoSleep View Post

We do write up each non conformance individually and address them individually my question was more in regard to a number of NCR's that were written up for the same basic non conformance indicating a gap within our training system. So does that gap in the training get it's own Corrective Action or just a suggestion for continual improvement

Sorry, this was not clear in your OP.

Continual Improvement is expected irrespective of issues you're having. This falls squarely in the lap of corrective action - you've identified multiple nonconformances for the same thing, and have stated that the root cause is the training process. It can't really be anything else.
Thanks to Mikishots for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #13  
Old 3rd October 2013, 04:32 PM
NoSleep

 
 
Total Posts: 12
Re: Corrective Action Necessary? OR what is the best approach??

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Mikishots View Post

Sorry, this was not clear in your OP.

Continual Improvement is expected irrespective of issues you're having. This falls squarely in the lap of corrective action - you've identified multiple nonconformances for the same thing, and have stated that the root cause is the training process. It can't really be anything else.
I guess my confusion is with the fact that we do what we say we are going to do within our personnel training so my thought was that means we are conforming to what we say we will do. HOWEVER what we say we will do is obviously not thorough enough.
  Post Number #14  
Old 3rd October 2013, 07:02 PM
kgott

 
 
Total Posts: 1,027
Re: Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by NoSleep View Post

I am in the middle of an internal audit of the training system. The training system is fairly basic; we outline in our SOP's what we are going to do for training and we do it. HOWEVER I have decided to take this audit in a deeper direction and cross reference internal (not customer reported) NCR's to a possible gap within the training system. I do believe I have found that our training system is lacking in content and while we do what we say we will do I don't think what we do is extensive enough. So does this fall into a Corrective Action Report area or does it fall under something else?

Thanks in advance
I would suggest that it falls under an 'improvement' or a 'preventative action' to prevent NCs in the future, its not the kind of thing to stress over. Just don't let an external auditor brow beat you into thinking that which ever view you take is wrong and their classification or 'suggestion' is right.
Thanks to kgott for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #15  
Old 4th October 2013, 10:34 AM
NoSleep

 
 
Total Posts: 12
Re: Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by kgott View Post

I would suggest that it falls under an 'improvement' or a 'preventative action' to prevent NCs in the future, its not the kind of thing to stress over. Just don't let an external auditor brow beat you into thinking that which ever view you take is wrong and their classification or 'suggestion' is right.
Thank you very much! I was thinking improvement or preventative also but was being told to go with corrective which just felt wrong. I appreciate your input
  Post Number #16  
Old 4th October 2013, 04:17 PM
Paola4122's Avatar
Paola4122

 
 
Total Posts: 7
Re: Internal Audit of the Training System - Corrective Action Necessary?

It falls under :Finding and then according with your procedure you can categorize this a a major or minor nonconformity and start from there to follow your corrective action procedure (8D form for CAR are the best)
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