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Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
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Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA
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Some Related Topic Tags
audit nonconformances and findings, audits and auditing, preventive action (pa)
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  Post Number #9  
Old 3rd April 2014, 01:15 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 8,480
Question Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by t.PoN View Post

I would not use the word "Threaten" .... geeees are you going into street fight?
Who used the word "threaten"?

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  Post Number #10  
Old 3rd April 2014, 01:22 PM
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Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

"...threatening..." is in the thread title.
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  Post Number #11  
Old 3rd April 2014, 01:46 PM
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Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by ABRSPLY View Post

We have had several preventive actions in the preceding two years. We already have a PM in place, a strict safety program with a monthly reward, a procedure for calibration, etc. We also provide monthly employee training. We have many continuous improvements each year. We just do not see any other areas that we have not covered that would be considered preventive action
You make preventive action sound as if there is a definitive start/stop point to it. I am not sure how you have worded the preventive action process within your organization, but in a previous professional life, I worded it to show that preventive action was an ongoing activity addressed in a mulititude of areas and activities such as:

Make the standard fit your process...not the other way around.
Thank You to RoxaneB for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #12  
Old 3rd April 2014, 03:15 PM
AndyN's Avatar
AndyN

 
 
Total Posts: 8,480
Thumbs up Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Marc View Post

"...threatening..." is in the thread title.
AH, yes! Well, it certainly reads like a "threat" to me!
  Post Number #13  
Old 3rd April 2014, 09:11 PM
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Randy

 
 
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Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

What kind of Gomer's are auditing?

This is so basic that in nearly defies logic...CB auditors have no authority to give out Corrective Actions.

There is not one single stinking requirement that you must have PA's, 8.5.3 just tells you how they must be controlled if you do have them
Thank You to Randy for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #14  
Old 3rd April 2014, 09:24 PM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,366
Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

That is a little bit of a stretch....you are saying they put a section in the standard ...just in case maybe you might want to kind of use it some day...? You're better than that....

But, it is moot....because ISO has thrown in the towel...It looks like PA will go away in the 2015 version... probably because so few people did them right anyway.

In it's place they will take it up a notch to "Risk Assessment" which could be a good thing if people figure out how to do that!
Thanks to Helmut Jilling for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #15  
Old 3rd April 2014, 09:34 PM
Helmut Jilling

 
 
Total Posts: 4,366
Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by cscalise View Post

I recently went through 3rd party lead auditor training and evaluation of evidence for PA was discussed. Many think that generating a preventative action in response to a CA meets the requirement. This typically isn't the case. One suggestion was to have the company hold (at least annually) a meeting that includes various departments to discuss/brainstorm potential areas for non-conformance and potential preventive measures. Minutes from this meeting can be used as evidence of preventative action activities. This can also be included in management review meeting minutes.
People....as you are doing your regular job....look problems and potential problems.

The existing problems you see are Corrective Actions - correct them.

The potential problems are candidates for Preventive Actions....prevent them.

That is all cl 8.5.2 and 8.5.3 are about...why do we make this so complicated?

Why wait for an "annual brainstorming meeting?" Are you going to save up your ideas? Do it in real time. If you see a problem, or potential problem...deal with it. Just make sure you identify the root cause and verify it has been eliminated.
Thank You to Helmut Jilling for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #16  
Old 4th April 2014, 10:44 AM
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mguilbert

 
 
Total Posts: 347
Re: Auditor threatening Formal NC and CA for not enough PA

On a side note, the TC has felt PA to be so important the current draft of 9001 does not even contain PA.
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