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Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
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Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action (CAPA) - A Definitive Discussion
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Some Related Topic Tags
capa (corrective and preventive action), corrective action (ca), preventive action (pa)
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  Post Number #65  
Old 22nd August 2001, 01:27 PM
CarolX's Avatar
CarolX

 
 
Total Posts: 2,168
Anton, Great question!

And let me take Jim's example a little further.
Upgrading software...the old system may work fine and be error free, but a new version may operate faster, be easier to use. So there is no preventative action here, but an improvement in efficiency. Same idea can be applied to machinery, the old one may work error free, but a newer model may save time in set-up or operation.

Just my nickels worth...
Have a good one,
CarolX

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  Post Number #66  
Old 22nd August 2001, 02:10 PM
Anton Ovsianko

 
 
Total Posts: n/a
Read This!

Thanks for your comments, Al, Jim, Carol,

My post, probably was not really "a shot" as Jim says. I was probably validating my own experience. Consulting people not very aware of the quality and even management theory, you always have to find good formulas helping them be motivated to do "the right thing".
In my humble experience I have been using the presented idea to motivate people in client companies to build up efficient continuous-improvement-systems, involving all of their staff as far as it is possible.
One has to know why he has to improve. It sounds banally, however is still a burning question for numerous enterpreneurs and managers, especially in SME's. It is not always persuasive enough to say that simply improving they just do not let their competitors go ahead of them (rather then going ahead themselves). They tell you that they understand it fully, but shall continue sustaining their favorite "status quo".

So, in some cases it is really striking to insist on the fact that any improvemnent is on the other had a way to avoid future non-conformities - or simply - problems.
This makes people think of improvements considering that these improvements have to solve some problems now or in the future. This also can be a base for ranking improvement activities according to their significance and benefits.


Yours sincerely,
Anton


  Post Number #67  
Old 23rd August 2001, 12:29 AM
Jim Biz's Avatar
Jim Biz

 
 
Total Posts: 486
I agree Al a very good post indeed. But for the sake of discussion - I would like to "take a shot" so to speak on this part of it.
Quote:
Can someone give me an example of an improvement, which is not a preventive action aimed at eliminating a reason for potential non-conformity?

Anton
How about:

Upgrade MRP database to include (insert your favorite data here) information not currently available.

a) can we agree its an improvement?
b) And at "face value at least" has nothing to do with eliminating a potential nonconformity

(The use of the new information may lead to future disovery of an area for potential nonconformity, but may also simply be a trend measurable to re-enforce what we allready know -- without involving nonconformity potential.

Regards
Jim
  Post Number #68  
Old 12th November 2001, 01:42 AM
Marc's Avatar
Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,502
Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Mader

I wrote something about a week ago in the QS9000 forum under the topic of Continuous Improvement Techniques that may help you out.
That thread is Continuous Improvement Techniques
  Post Number #69  
Old 23rd December 2003, 11:28 PM
Marc's Avatar
Marc

 
 
Total Posts: 26,502
A Blast from the Past! Has anything changed?
  Post Number #70  
Old 31st December 2003, 08:48 AM
energy

 
 
Total Posts: n/a
Question Did it work?

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Kevin Mader

Let's load a bunch of trucks, fill them with product, show on the books the product is sold, ship it out, take it back eventually and put it back in the books as usable inventory. Wait three months, and do it again. Bravo. What a plan. Just think, ship out a little more each quarter, and show the holder a positive yearly trend. Bottom line: no improvement! Nothing new here I know, but I mention it again anyway.
Happy New Year, Kev. Notwithstanding the lack of scruples, did this work? Does it work over and over? Not bad.......if the loss of the company was the other option.
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Kevin Mader

Sad, you had the ability to improve a bad situation, perhaps help save a sinking ship. But the powers that be (or had been) had other ideas.
Did you or (anybody else) really have the ability? Or do you assume you have the ability to juggle finances. Was time a factor? Maybe the powers to be made the decision to behave that way with the plan to study why they have to do this, from time to time. If the bottom line was, as you said, only "no improvement", in this case maybe it was the right choice. I don't condone it. I would have to accept it as it involves moving assets which are out of my domain. Just throwing coals onto the fire.
  Post Number #71  
Old 12th January 2004, 06:06 PM
wslabey

 
 
Total Posts: 118
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action

I guess I will add my two cents.

I am trying to get this straight in my mind as well. Here is where I am at. Problem solving for a defective part or process is corrective action. For example, 6 defective parts were replaced under warranty because of paint adhesion loss on a "A" class surface (i.e., paint bubbled and blistered after 6,000 miles of service). Root cause was found to be an operator who left the propane torch flame (used to deflash the molded part) inadvertently "parked" over the class "A" surface for a second causing olefins from the TPO (i.e., plastic) material to rise to the surface making a surface prone to adhesion loss as manifested by paint blistering and peeling after several months of use.

Whereas something such as a potential DFMEA or PFMEA are examples of preventive actions such as when the part or process is modified to eliminate a process step that could cause problems. For example, when the next plastic injection molded part was in the design and pre-launch phase the mold was redesigned to eliminate the need for deflashing with a propane torch. Here is the logic tree: with no flash to remove, no propane torch is required to deflash and, therefore, the operator cannot overheat the part. Hence, no paint peeling blisters caused by olefins being raised to the surface due to overheating the TPO.

Last edited by wslabey; 17th January 2004 at 12:19 AM.
  Post Number #72  
Old 21st January 2004, 03:12 PM
energy

 
 
Total Posts: n/a
Re: Corrective Action vs. Preventive (Predictive) Action

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by wslabey

Whereas something such as a potential DFMEA or PFMEA are examples of preventive actions such as when the part or process is modified to eliminate a process step that could cause problems. For example, when the next plastic injection molded part was in the design and pre-launch phase the mold was redesigned to eliminate the need for deflashing with a propane torch. Here is the logic tree: with no flash to remove, no propane torch is required to deflash and, therefore, the operator cannot overheat the part. Hence, no paint peeling blisters caused by olefins being raised to the surface due to overheating the TPO.
FWIW...I would consider it Preventive. Could it not also be considered Continuous Improvement of your product/process? I posted this before...I questioned a potential Registrar about the difference in the two. Using your blistered paint example for example Part A, I was told that applying what we learned about the blistering on Part A to other parts was Preventive. Go figure.
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