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Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
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Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
Continual Improvement - What is CI and what is CI not?
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  Post Number #25  
Old 8th June 2004, 03:22 PM
WALLACE's Avatar
WALLACE

 
 
Total Posts: 759
Just realized, I'm kinda repeating what Rob said. ops:
Hoping though to, dig deeper and find a correlation between Continuous and Continual in relation to modern management practices.
Wallace.

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  Post Number #26  
Old 8th June 2004, 03:43 PM
The Taz!'s Avatar
The Taz!

 
 
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I agree totally with Bob and Steve . . .
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  Post Number #27  
Old 8th June 2004, 03:50 PM
Steve Prevette's Avatar
Steve Prevette

 
 
Total Posts: 2,515
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by WALLACE

Would you agree that modern management methods for the most part practice the Continuous approach (By nature), thus infusing an MBO environment and intentionaly putting the cart before the horse?
Just my thoughts.
Wallace.
Depends on your operational definition of "modern management methods" .

It is interesting, if you do look at many business books, and when you look at data analysis, they tend make their examples of a "trend" as a smooth increasing ramp. My experience is change is indeed discontinuous, and is a series of stair steps.

In improvement (and PDSA), where I would say the cart gets before the horse is that during the planning for the change the planners make an estimate of the expected impact of the change. Now, this is indeed necessary. I ought to have some basis to evaluate candidate changes, and be able to choose the one with the highest expected bang for the buck. But when that estimate of the change now becomes an MBO goal, or worst, some engineered standard (theoretical capacity of the equipment) is chosen as the criteria between success and failure, then we have problems.

The continual change model allows us to improve in steps. Probably a worthwhile discussion is not the difference between continual and continuous, but the interplay between continual (PDSA) change, and drastic discarding of old processes and replacement with a new "clean slate" process (Reengineering, and/or the Tom Peters "destruction imperative"). The difference between somewhat discontinuous and massively discontinuous.
  Post Number #28  
Old 8th June 2004, 10:13 PM
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Total Posts: 759
Steve,
Have you ever came across, a statistical measure that reveals a correlation between the slope of continuous and the staired increments of Continual?
Wallace.
  Post Number #29  
Old 9th June 2004, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by WALLACE

Steve,
Have you ever came across, a statistical measure that reveals a correlation between the slope of continuous and the staired increments of Continual?
Wallace.
I'm not too sure what would be such a correlation measure, but I can state on empirical experience with more than a 1,000 control charts per month that it is more common to see sharp shifts in performance, moving from plateau to plateau (and stable time interval to a new stable time interval) rather than periods of time with ramping data between plateaus. I'd guess it is about 90% of the time when there is a change the transition in data takes less than a month.

I would say that the theory behind this is that we indeed make a change to a process, once the change takes hold (the workers out there really start doing the new way) there is a step change in performance rather than a sloping change. Then we make the next change, etc.
  Post Number #30  
Old 9th June 2004, 10:03 AM
The Taz!'s Avatar
The Taz!

 
 
Total Posts: 499
Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Steve Prevette

I'm not too sure what would be such a correlation measure, but I can state on empirical experience with more than a 1,000 control charts per month that it is more common to see sharp shifts in performance, moving from plateau to plateau (and stable time interval to a new stable time interval) rather than periods of time with ramping data between plateaus. I'd guess it is about 90% of the time when there is a change the transition in data takes less than a month.

I would say that the theory behind this is that we indeed make a change to a process, once the change takes hold (the workers out there really start doing the new way) there is a step change in performance rather than a sloping change. Then we make the next change, etc.
Gee Steve. . . looks like a new thread germinating. . . possibly the American way of Break-through technology vs. Incremental Improvement. Plateauing vs. step or slope.
  Post Number #31  
Old 9th June 2004, 10:17 AM
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Steve Prevette

 
 
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Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by The Taz!

Gee Steve. . . looks like a new thread germinating. . . possibly the American way of Break-through technology vs. Incremental Improvement. Plateauing vs. step or slope.
Absolutely. For example, there is Tom Peters who pushes for massive step change - destroy out the old, and bring in an entirely new process. At the other extreme is Kaizen, and continual improvement (which is still discontinuous, but generally small steps at a time rather than one huge one).

Part of being a succesfull entity is being able to tell when to use each. The American way (unfortunately) includes a desire for "instant pudding" (Dr. Deming's phrase). So American companies tend to go for the big huge changes. Where we have failures is where people throw out everything (the baby with the bathwater so to speak) and don't include old knowledge and old lessons learned when designing the new system. These huge changes die a huge painful death when not well thought out. We don't hear much of "reengineering" anymore.

- The following is not an original thought - Perhaps when faced with a really broken system it is worth doing a massive redesign to it, and then follow that redesign with continual improvement.
  Post Number #32  
Old 9th June 2004, 10:38 AM
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Claes Gefvenberg

 
 
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Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Steve Prevette

...tend to go for the big huge changes. Where we have failures is where people throw out everything (the baby with the bathwater so to speak) and don't include old knowledge and old lessons learned when designing the new system. These huge changes die a huge painful death when not well thought out. We don't hear much of "reengineering" anymore.
That is obviously correct. Mind you, a previous boss of mine once said that "the only way to change the way people do something is to make it impossible to use the old way". I think he was correct, but as you say, it is essential to include old knowledge and old lessons learned when you carry the change out.

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Steve Prevette

- The following is not an original thought - Perhaps when faced with a really broken system it is worth doing a massive redesign to it, and then follow that redesign with continual improvement.
Right. You certainly have much less to lose, and a lot more to gain in that situation.

/Claes
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