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The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums (https://elsmar.com/Forums/)
-   AS9100, IAQG 9100, Nadcap and related Aerospace Standards and Requirements (https://elsmar.com/Forums/forum95/)
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CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D

(https://elsmar.com/Forums/as9100-iaqg-9100-nadcap-and-related-aerospace-standards-and-requirements/71979-cb-internal-auditors-common-nonconformities-as9100d.html)

Mjtaur 16th January 2018 10:47 AM

CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
CB and Internal auditors, what are your most common findings for AS9100D? Let's just say a small machine shop that excludes design, or similar.

dsanabria 16th January 2018 12:50 PM

re: CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
Quote:

In Reply to Parent Post by Mjtaur (Post 605122)
CB and Internal auditors, what are your most common findings for AS9100D? Let's just say a small machine shop that excludes design, or similar.

Not sure how we can help you in your question - can you rephrase your concern or question?

Mjtaur 16th January 2018 12:55 PM

re: CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
Quote:

In Reply to Parent Post by dsanabria (Post 605123)
Not sure how we can help you in your question - can you rephrase your concern or question?

I suppose I could say it as, what are small, excluded design shops running into concerning findings? Are there any common findings that are being seen from place to place? Are there areas that aren't commonly well understood by companies, that might be a pattern?

Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

dsanabria 16th January 2018 01:03 PM

re: CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
Quote:

In Reply to Parent Post by Mjtaur (Post 605124)
I suppose I could say it as, what are small, excluded design shops running into concerning findings? Are there any common findings that are being seen from place to place? Are there areas that aren't commonly well understood by companies, that might be a pattern?

Sent from my N9560 using Tapatalk

To my knowledge - most auditors are writing NCR on the AS9100C - not too many on AS9100D as it is vaguely written and hard to point out issues with it.

Sidney Vianna 16th January 2018 01:52 PM

re: CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
Quote:

In Reply to Parent Post by dsanabria (Post 605125)
To my knowledge - most auditors are writing NCR on the AS9100C - not too many on AS9100D as it is vaguely written and hard to point out issues with it.

Thanks for your candor. And, because I believe your perception is correct and representative of the whole conformity assessment sector, it just gives more evidence to my line of thought that, it does not matter what "new requirements" a revised standard brings. Unless the conformity assessment practices make the system accountable to the requirements, such requirements don't exist, for all practical purposes.

That's why, it does not matter if a revision of the standard has "beefed up" requirements about the role of the organization's leadership in the system. If auditors (internal and external) are afraid of interviewing top management and asking them the tough questions they should be asked, for all practical purposes, top management is given a pass they don't deserve. What good does it make for a standard to have additional requirements if the auditors don't keep the organization accountable to them?

That's why, repeating myself for the nth time, the failure to devise conformity assessment practices and develop conformity assessment practitioners in a way that they assess systems under the new context, revising standards is a wasted effort. How ISO CASCO fails to see (and ACT) on that, is astounding, in my opinion.

AndyN 16th January 2018 07:02 PM

Re: CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
Quote:

In Reply to Parent Post by dsanabria (Post 605125)
To my knowledge - most auditors are writing NCR on the AS9100C - not too many on AS9100D as it is vaguely written and hard to point out issues with it.

Why? Shouldn't they be auditing the client's QMS? If the client has paid out how they comply to each clause of AS9100D, what's the problem with doesn't the audit to see if they are implementing it and that it's effective? Have the CB rules changed? Isn't that the purpose of the 2 stage CB process? Stage 1 confirms the QMS complies with the standard, stage 2 audits the QMS for implementation and effectiveness...

What's changed?

dsanabria 16th January 2018 08:09 PM

Re: CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
What's changed?[/QUOTE]

The AS9100D has become vague and overreaching without a clear path for anyone to follow.

Mjtaur 17th January 2018 12:38 PM

Re: CB and Internal auditors most common nonconformities against AS9100D
 
Quote:

In Reply to Parent Post by dsanabria (Post 605146)
What's changed?

The AS9100D has become vague and overreaching without a clear path for anyone to follow.[/QUOTE]

Your company shall do X, Y & Z, and have evidence of being able to do it, as your company sees fit...




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