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Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
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Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification
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scope of certification (aka registration), scope of the qms, service company or industry
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  Post Number #9  
Old 23rd April 2018, 10:24 AM
MickPetzold

 
 
Total Posts: 5
Re: Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification

Thanks for all the great responses!

We are a small, progressive company noted for our safety record, technical knowledge and skill, and excellent quality of our services. None of our customers require ISO 9001, although it certainly has gotten us in the door on several occasions.

I was hired by my company six years ago to implement a quality system. Being quite familiar with ISO 9001 implementations - having implemented and maintained all versions in manufacturing environments - I thought it would be a great opportunity to implement it in our service business. (The ISO 9001 provides an excellent quality system foundation that demands us to identify, document and maintain consistent processes using scope, objectives, monitoring and metrics, and analysis of data to manage, control and improve our key business processes and all our projects. Third party audits are a great way to ensure our team “walk the talk”.)

Our CB auditor has been excellent and we’ve established a great relationship with them. In the past, they have audited our service by sampling the inspection, test and maintenance of small high voltage equipment (e.g., distribution regulators) that have been replaced by our customer and are delivered to our shop. Field work, which represents most of our business, was not audited by 3rd party auditors mainly due to safety reasons. (We have internal auditors that are trained and qualified to perform field audits.) Unfortunately, the ISO 9001:2015 has a greater emphasis on “Scope of the QMS”, hence ANAB’s concern.

Unless convinced otherwise, I believe AndyN's suggestion will work best for us. I don’t believe having our performance of service excluded will impact us in any way. Our company is also NETA accredited which provides assurance to our customers that our tests and inspections are performed objectively, according to NETA specifications, using calibrated instruments traceable to the NIST and that we are a well-established, full-service electrical testing and maintenance business.

Here’s what I’m thinking for the Scope of our QMS:

“The management of inspection, test and maintenance activities on high-voltage electrical power equipment and systems to assess and ensure their suitability for initial and continued service, all of which is performed in our main office.”
Thank You to MickPetzold for your informative Post and/or Attachment!

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  Post Number #10  
Old 23rd April 2018, 11:55 AM
John Broomfield's Avatar
John Broomfield

 
 
Total Posts: 2,588
Lightbulb Re: Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification

Mike,

As well as this scope for certification:

“The management of inspection, test and maintenance activities on high-voltage electrical power equipment and systems to assess and ensure their suitability for initial and continued service, all of which is performed in our main office.”

I recommend a broader scope for your management system:

“The design, performance and management of inspection, test and maintenance services on high-voltage electrical power equipment and systems to assess and ensure their suitability for initial and continued service.”

That is you want your management system to help your organization to assure the quality of your services while continually improving your services.

Best wishes,

John
Thank You to John Broomfield for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #11  
Old 23rd April 2018, 01:42 PM
MickPetzold

 
 
Total Posts: 5
Re: Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by John Broomfield View Post

Mike,

As well as this scope for certification:

“The management of inspection, test and maintenance activities on high-voltage electrical power equipment and systems to assess and ensure their suitability for initial and continued service, all of which is performed in our main office.”

I recommend a broader scope for your management system:

“The design, performance and management of inspection, test and maintenance services on high-voltage electrical power equipment and systems to assess and ensure their suitability for initial and continued service.”

That is you want your management system to help your organization to assure the quality of your services while continually improving your services.

Best wishes,

John
John, that was our original scope with the exception of design because we do not design and develop new services. (Our services are performed to contractual requirements, technical specifications, and/or industry standards established by our customers, regulatory bodies [e.g., OSHA], and organizations that administer applicable voluntary standards [e.g., NFPA, ANSI/NETA, IEEE, etc.])

The issue is, if our scope includes PERFORMANCE of services, our CB is obligated to audit that, and many of our customers will not let on site for safety and/or security reasons. Further, our CB will not audit our field service because of safety considerations. So, after posting here and the suggestion from AndyN, and confirmation from a large CB, excluding performance of service is a typical way to handle these situations. Let's hope ANAB agrees!
  Post Number #12  
Old 23rd April 2018, 01:49 PM
John Broomfield's Avatar
John Broomfield

 
 
Total Posts: 2,588
Yin Yang Re: Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification

Mick,

I doubt ANAB would choose to limit the effectiveness of your management system, even if it cannot be certified in its entirety.

In my experience, having two scope statements (one for the cert and the other for the QMS) is a viable way through this.

John

PS: Another way of looking at this is that you develop the management system to fulfill the needs of the business, then you decide on the scope of certification sought by your customer.

Last edited by John Broomfield; 23rd April 2018 at 02:03 PM. Reason: Added PS
Thank You to John Broomfield for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #13  
Old 23rd April 2018, 02:08 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 9,309
Re: Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification

ANAB, or any other AB, has ZERO control over an organization's QMS scope. John, as you pointed out, the scope of certification can be a subset of the scope of the QMS.

ANAB's role is oversight of the CB, which includes the need that verification of the scope of certification to be accurate and supported by the scope of the audits.

Scope of certification and scope of the management system are two different issues, as exemplified by this thread.
Thank You to Sidney Vianna for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #14  
Old 23rd April 2018, 03:00 PM
MickPetzold

 
 
Total Posts: 5
Re: Service Industry - Scope of the QMS & Scope of Certification

John and Sidney,

I believe I've handled it correctly then, and we're on same page. Our QMS Manual reads as follows:

0.1.1 <Our Company> Scope of Work

<Our Company> performs inspections, tests and maintenance of high-voltage electrical power equipment and systems to assess and ensure their suitability for initial and continued service.
.
.
.
0.3 QMS Scope

0.3.1 <Our Company> QMS Scope

This <Our Company> Quality Management System (QMS) specifies the systems of <Our Company> which are aimed at meeting our Vision/Mission through maintaining of our values and achievement of the Four C’s:
Customer Success;
Connected Employees;
Consistent Processes;
Continual Improvement.

The requirements in this manual apply to all employees, regardless of the service provided, and are intended to be applicable to all services, processes and systems, within <Our Company>’ Scope of Work (paragraph 0.1.1). Because <Our Company> outsources responsibilities that could affect conformity, outsourced material or services are also included in the scope and shall be handled in accordance with this policy, as applicable. For example, suppliers and subcontractors <Our Company> outsources from shall be selected and evaluated in accordance with Section 2.3, Supplier Management to ensure conformity of their products and services.

The <Our Company> Quality Management System has been developed to meet or exceed all applicable requirements found in ISO 9001:2015 excluding Section 8.3 Design and Development because we do not design and develop new services. Our services are performed to contractual requirements, technical specifications, and/or industry standards established by our customers, regulatory bodies (e.g., OSHA) and organizations that administer applicable voluntary standards (e.g., NFPA, ANSI/NETA, IEEE, etc.)

0.3.2 ISO 9001:2015 Scope of Certification

For the purposes of ISO 9001:2015 certification our QMS Scope is further limited to:
“The management of inspection, test and maintenance activities on high-voltage electrical power equipment and systems to assess and ensure their suitability for initial and continued service.”
This is to ensure the safety of our 3rd party auditors and protect our customers’ interests who generally do not allow 3rd party personnel on their sites due to safety, security and/or insurance concerns.

Last edited by MickPetzold; 25th April 2018 at 09:03 AM.
Thank You to MickPetzold for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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