The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R
 Forum User Name Keep Me Logged In Password
 Register Photo Albums Blogs FAQ Registered Visitors Social Groups Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

 Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

# How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

 Elsmar XML RSS Feed Monitor the Elsmar Forum Sponsor Links Courtesy Quick Links Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support: International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies International Standards Organization - ISO Standards and Information Quality Digest

 Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
Post Number #1
11th May 2006, 09:38 PM
 fl350z Total Posts: 6
How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

hi all.. have smtn to ask u all..

how to determine the values k1, k2,k3?
is there a standard value for them?

how to determine which one to use in a gr&r study? based on number of operators? number of trials?

Thanks..

Post Number #2
12th May 2006, 08:38 AM
 antoine.dias Total Posts: 514
k1,k2,k3

You can take the examples given in the MSA manual.

k1 is the constant in relation to the number of trials in the study.
2 trials 0,8862
3 trials 0,5908

k2 is the constant in relation to the number of appraisers in the study.
2 operators 0,7071
3 operators 0,5231

k3 is the constant in relation to the number of parts in the study.
Parts K3
2 0,7071
3 0,5231
4 0,4467
5 0,4030
6 0,3742
7 0,3534
8 0,3375
9 0,3249
10 0,3146

For further details, See MSA manual.

Best regards,

Antoine
 Thanks to antoine.dias for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Post Number #3
17th January 2007, 09:35 AM
 cplusplus - 2009 Total Posts: 4
Re: k1,k2,k3

Hi,
When I review some of the excel sheets, softwares, and AIAG MSA, i found 2 kind of K1, K2, K3 values.
Eg:
According to several softwares and excel files (minitab, spc for excel) k1 is:

Trials K1
2 4.5600
3 3.0500

According to the MSA handbook (3rd edition, page 114), and some softwares K1 is

Trials K1
2 0,8862
3 0,5908

Do you happen to know the reason of that???

Thank you,
Post Number #4
18th January 2007, 06:07 AM
 antoine.dias Total Posts: 514
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Welcome to the cove.

The difference you have found is due to the different approach in the MSA manual ( difference between version 2 and version 3 of the MSA manual )

Hope this helps,

Antoine
Post Number #5
12th December 2007, 04:12 AM
 Alex.G Total Posts: 9
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

I'm ok with the answer but what is the difference between the old system and the new? because the constant value are really differente and change considerably the result?

Anyone have an answer to this?
Post Number #6
12th December 2007, 05:42 AM
 martin elliott Total Posts: 68
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Quote:
 In Reply to Parent Post by Alex.G I'm ok with the answer but what is the difference between the old system and the new? because the constant value are really differente and change considerably the result? Anyone have an answer to this?
The answer lies in the different equations used in Version 2 and Version 3.

You cannot just simply substitute the Version 3 K values in an Version 2 worksheet.
Post Number #7
12th December 2007, 06:29 AM
 Alex.G Total Posts: 9
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

I checked the equation and they are exactly the same in the 2 cases??
Can u tell me which equation exactly is different ?
Post Number #8
12th December 2007, 06:47 AM
 harry Total Posts: 6,289
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Have a look at discussions in this thread: Values and results to check Validation of Gauge (Gage) R&R program and Warning as to MSA 3rd edition worksheets

 The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

 Bookmarks

 Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 2 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 2 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 Thread Tools Search this Thread Search this Thread: Advanced Forum Search Display Modes Rate Thread Content Linear Mode Rate Thread Content: 5 : Excellent 4 : Good 3 : Average 2 : Bad 1 : Terrible

 Forum Posting Settings You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Emoticons are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Forum Rules

 Similar Discussion Threads Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote amiuda General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4 25th April 2013 12:22 AM Howard Atkins Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 11 3rd June 2011 04:18 PM gregb Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1 28th June 2006 02:57 AM Star18 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5 2nd February 2006 03:09 PM dbulak Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 4 12th January 2004 11:25 AM

The time now is 10:38 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.