The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > General Metrology, Measurement Device, Calibration and Test Laboratories > Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis)
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R


Elsmar XML RSS Feed
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links




Courtesy Quick Links


Links Elsmar Cove visitors will find useful in the quest for knowledge and support:

Jennifer Kirley's
Conway Business Services


Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC



International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Standards Organization - ISO Standards and Information

NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags (Not all threads are Tagged)
gage r&r (repeatability and reproducibility), msa (measurement system analysis)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Content Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 11th May 2006, 09:38 PM
fl350z

 
 
Total Posts: 6
Let Me Help You How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

hi all.. have smtn to ask u all..

how to determine the values k1, k2,k3?
is there a standard value for them?

how to determine which one to use in a gr&r study? based on number of operators? number of trials?

Thanks..

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 12th May 2006, 08:38 AM
antoine.dias's Avatar
antoine.dias

 
 
Total Posts: 514
k1,k2,k3

You can take the examples given in the MSA manual.

k1 is the constant in relation to the number of trials in the study.
2 trials 0,8862
3 trials 0,5908

k2 is the constant in relation to the number of appraisers in the study.
2 operators 0,7071
3 operators 0,5231

k3 is the constant in relation to the number of parts in the study.
Parts K3
2 0,7071
3 0,5231
4 0,4467
5 0,4030
6 0,3742
7 0,3534
8 0,3375
9 0,3249
10 0,3146

For further details, See MSA manual.

Best regards,

Antoine
Thanks to antoine.dias for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
Sponsored Links

  Post Number #3  
Old 17th January 2007, 09:35 AM
cplusplus - 2009

 
 
Total Posts: 4
Re: k1,k2,k3

Hi,
When I review some of the excel sheets, softwares, and AIAG MSA, i found 2 kind of K1, K2, K3 values.
Eg:
According to several softwares and excel files (minitab, spc for excel) k1 is:

Trials K1
2 4.5600
3 3.0500


According to the MSA handbook (3rd edition, page 114), and some softwares K1 is

Trials K1
2 0,8862
3 0,5908

Do you happen to know the reason of that???

Thank you,
  Post Number #4  
Old 18th January 2007, 06:07 AM
antoine.dias's Avatar
antoine.dias

 
 
Total Posts: 514
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Welcome to the cove.

The difference you have found is due to the different approach in the MSA manual ( difference between version 2 and version 3 of the MSA manual )

Hope this helps,

Antoine
  Post Number #5  
Old 12th December 2007, 04:12 AM
Alex.G

 
 
Total Posts: 9
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

I'm ok with the answer but what is the difference between the old system and the new? because the constant value are really differente and change considerably the result?

Anyone have an answer to this?
  Post Number #6  
Old 12th December 2007, 05:42 AM
martin elliott

 
 
Total Posts: 68
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Alex.G View Post

I'm ok with the answer but what is the difference between the old system and the new? because the constant value are really differente and change considerably the result?

Anyone have an answer to this?
The answer lies in the different equations used in Version 2 and Version 3.

You cannot just simply substitute the Version 3 K values in an Version 2 worksheet.
  Post Number #7  
Old 12th December 2007, 06:29 AM
Alex.G

 
 
Total Posts: 9
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

I checked the equation and they are exactly the same in the 2 cases??
Can u tell me which equation exactly is different ?
  Post Number #8  
Old 12th December 2007, 06:47 AM
harry

 
 
Total Posts: 6,289
Re: How to determine the values of k1, k2, k3 in Gage R&R

Have a look at discussions in this thread: Values and results to check Validation of Gauge (Gage) R&R program and Warning as to MSA 3rd edition worksheets
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > General Metrology, Measurement Device, Calibration and Test Laboratories > Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis)

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 2 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 2 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
Help with acceptable screw gage values per standard BS 919 for Go/ No Go gage amiuda General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4 25th April 2013 12:22 AM
Values and results to check Validation of Gauge (Gage) R&R program Howard Atkins Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 11 3rd June 2011 04:18 PM
Gage R&R for torque wrenches - Fixed values ranging from 7.5 to 200Nm gregb Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1 28th June 2006 02:57 AM
Gage R&R - Applied threshold for the %EV and %AV values? Star18 Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5 2nd February 2006 03:09 PM
Is it possible to determine the Cpk value from Cp and Cr values? dbulak Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 4 12th January 2004 11:25 AM



The time now is 10:38 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


 
 


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"