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Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?


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Some Related Topic Tags (Not all threads are Tagged)
accounting department, documents and documentation (general), financial (finance) departments, qms (quality management system), quality manuals (general), procedures (general)
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  Post Number #1  
Old 21st May 2009, 09:00 AM
irish01

 
 
Total Posts: 25
Question Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

Hey folks! We're implementing a lot of changes in our existing QMS system. I'm streamlining our quality manual and getting Level 2's written that were not part of the 6 required.... :-) yada yada

In the past, I've worked for some companies that had mature QMS systems in place, so I feel I've got good background to carry the org where it needs to go, from where we are.

One thing I have not encountered and am curious to know:

Where does your organization fit in documentation for Finance & Accounting activities? Are they in your QMS-proper, or are they a totally separate stack of documents?

We are a North American organization with several sites, if that helps. Thanks for any advice!

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  Post Number #2  
Old 21st May 2009, 09:17 AM
ScottK's Avatar
ScottK

 
 
Total Posts: 2,584
Re: Does your org include Finance & Accouting docs in the QMS?

I have always treated finanace and accounting documents on an as-needed basis.
I break them into two categories:
1) Procedures (incl work instructions)
2) Records

Very few financial records in my experience have qualified as qualty records But - understand that I've never worked for a company subject to SOX either so I don't know how/if that would make a difference in the QMS.
My current company is an ESOP - so certain data is distributed annually. This is not an official quality record at this point. But it is used in Management Review so I may file a PA to make the annual report a quality record.

As far as procedures - There are a few. Only financial processes that directly tie into other processes that are required by my QMS may be documented - like some accouts payable processes tying into purchasing and receiving.

Accounts receivable, for example... not documented at all in my current org. Nor do we feel the need to at this point as it's low on the trouble area priority list.
Payroll is another are that is not touched right now. Nor is 401k administration, health benefits administration, workers comp, etc.
Responsibilities for these are defined in job descriptions, but that as far as we go with documentation.

Basically as far as stuff not required for our ISO or PED Module D registrations: if we feel it needs controls, we include it. If not, we leave it alone. Much of Finance/Accounting falls into the latter.
Thanks to ScottK for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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  Post Number #3  
Old 21st May 2009, 10:09 AM
ralphsulser's Avatar
ralphsulser

 
 
Total Posts: 1,573
Re: Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

We are SOX compliant and get audited to same.
Our QMS ISO9001/TS16949:2002 does not include accounting and financial systems.
  Post Number #4  
Old 21st May 2009, 10:41 AM
Craig H.

 
 
Total Posts: 2,048
Re: Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

We do not include any accounting/finance documents in our system. Perhaps the main (only?) reference is on the main process map. A/R is the box just before GET PAID!!.

BTW, at the very bottom of this page there are links to existing threads that are related to this topic. One of those got a little intense between the esteemed Sidney and I. Might be worth a look...
  Post Number #5  
Old 21st May 2009, 10:51 AM
irish01

 
 
Total Posts: 25
Re: Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

A big THANK YOU to everyone who has replied so far.

Craig, thanks for the links to the other discussions. I *knew* i should have done a search before i posted, but right before i pressed the "submit your post" button, i thought, "who in the world on this forum would care about discussing Financial documents?". Then i posted!

I should have known better! I learn a lot from the Cove every time i visit. I'm so glad so many seem to have the same issues i have and are willing to talk about them. Misery loves company i guess!

Christy
Thanks to irish01 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #6  
Old 21st May 2009, 11:41 AM
Ted Schmitt's Avatar
Ted Schmitt

 
 
Total Posts: 668
Re: Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

What is the scope of the QMS? If you are an accounting firm, then the answer would be YES. If you are a manufacturing organization or other type of service (not accounting or finance related) then the answer would be NO.

But........ doesnīt accounts receivable have contact with your client? Some argue that at least accounts receivable should be included in the QMS... (my particular oganization does not and have never been questioned by a CB)...
Thanks to Ted Schmitt for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #7  
Old 21st May 2009, 11:50 AM
Coury Ferguson's Avatar
Coury Ferguson

 
 
Total Posts: 4,496
Re: Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

I would think that maybe one function should be part of the QMS.

Accounts Payable. Because if your suppliers aren't paid they could affect delivery, and quality, in my opinion.
  Post Number #8  
Old 21st May 2009, 04:00 PM
lrowe's Avatar
lrowe

 
 
Total Posts: 43
Re: Does your organization include Finance & Accounting documents in the QMS?

The closest we come to this is having some accounting related forms that we control with part of our QMS software. However we do not audit accounting which I guess is the true measure of whether the department is part of our Quality system or not. Logically, I don't see why financial concerns should be a part of the Quality System, but there certainly are some people in every organization I've been in that thinks they should be!
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