Part Prints - Controlled and Uncontrolled Documents (e.g.: The Production Floor)

RebeccaJay · Feb 27, 2014

Hi,
And help please. Ok, our part prints are a controlled document and they get a red controlled stamp to indicate such. Can there be uncontrolled copies designated as such on the floor? We are in a heated discussion that the only print allowed on the production floor is the " controlled " print and that NO " reference only " or " uncontrolled " prints are allowed. ( thats impossible on my floor )
Give me input please and Thank You,
Rebeca

John Broomfield · Feb 27, 2014

Re: Controlled and Uncontrolled Docs

RebeccaJay said:
Hi,
And help please. Ok, our part prints are a controlled document and they get a red controlled stamp to indicate such. Can there be uncontrolled copies designated as such on the floor? We are in a heated discussion that the only print allowed on the production floor is the " controlled " print and that NO " reference only " or " uncontrolled " prints are allowed. ( thats impossible on my floor )
Give me input please and Thank You,
Rebeca

Rebecca,

No, provide only valid information to the production floor.

John

Golfman25 · Feb 27, 2014

A couple of thoughts from someone who uses a lot of prints. It would be too cumbersome to try to control prints once they are released to the floor. Control your prints at the source -- a hard file or online.

If you use a traveler or routing of some type, attach a current copy of the print. When the job is done, collect the traveler/routing/print and file.

If you don't want to make the copy, then keep them accessible online.

Make sure you have processes in place to keep the online database updated or retrieve and replace the copies if a rev. change is issued during production.

Make sure employees know that copies are uncontrolled and that the latest version is online or filed. So if it isn't attached to a current router/traveler for a current job, don't use it. Good luck.

Jim Wynne · Feb 27, 2014

RebeccaJay said:
Hi,
And help please. Ok, our part prints are a controlled document and they get a red controlled stamp to indicate such. Can there be uncontrolled copies designated as such on the floor? We are in a heated discussion that the only print allowed on the production floor is the " controlled " print and that NO " reference only " or " uncontrolled " prints are allowed. ( thats impossible on my floor )
Give me input please and Thank You,
Rebeca

If your document control system is governed by ISO 9001:2008, the requirements for control are in 4.2.3. You should have a documented procedure that addresses the situation you describe.

In general, there is no hard-and-fast rule that universally prohibits having uncontrolled copies of documents, including drawings, on the production floor. You need to have safeguards in place that will prevent the use of obsolete documents. The peoplel who use the documents must be able to answer the question "How do you know you're using the current version?" If your drawings come from customers (i.e., they are "documents of external origin") distribution must be controlled. That's a fuzzy requirement that can be satisfied by ensuring that people who are given copies of controlled documents actually need to have them, and are aware of the requirements for ensuring that they're using current versions.

Mark Meer · Feb 27, 2014

In terms of suggested solutions, I agree with Golfman25.
If you can afford the initial investment, maybe consider networked tablets rather than paper. That way you can be sure that all versions are always up-to-date, synced and un-altered...

I also agree with Jim Wynne: "there is no hard-and-fast rule", but safeguards should be in place.
No doubt, you understand the spirit of a system that has such safeguards for preventing use of obsolete documents, so I'm curious what the other-side of your "heated discussion" has to say to justify relaxing such controls? What is the purpose of the drawings on the production floor?

RebeccaJay · Feb 28, 2014

All of the prints we use are ours, proprietary, and in paper form. There are thousands of paper prints and a newly designed database with maybe a couple hundred scanned and cross referenced to new part numbers. Not to mention, no CAD models and every single one needs to be programmed. The man power it would take to get all of these prints scanned and cross referenced is problem #1. Problem #2, the owners are directly involved, one creates the CNC programs as needed (and he is our sales man), I can end up with the original print plus dozens of operational prints (usually just showing different views) in a job file not to mention the actual cut and paste methods used to create prints for outside services. The other owner runs the CNC (and is the cut and paste fanatic). This is their property and if they want to make a copy of a print, they will. But try to point that out in a meeting when you are explaining that rigid document control will not work on our floor( stop making copies, willy-nilly ). I am trying to put something simple in place to show some modicum of control over what we do. Rebecca

John Broomfield · Feb 28, 2014

RebeccaJay said:
All of the prints we use are ours, proprietary, and in paper form. There are thousands of paper prints and a newly designed database with maybe a couple hundred scanned and cross referenced to new part numbers. Not to mention, no CAD models and every single one needs to be programmed. The man power it would take to get all of these prints scanned and cross referenced is problem #1. Problem #2, the owners are directly involved, one creates the CNC programs as needed (and he is our sales man), I can end up with the original print plus dozens of operational prints (usually just showing different views) in a job file not to mention the actual cut and paste methods used to create prints for outside services. The other owner runs the CNC (and is the cut and paste fanatic). This is their property and if they want to make a copy of a print, they will. But try to point that out in a meeting when you are explaining that rigid document control will not work on our floor( stop making copies, willy-nilly ). I am trying to put something simple in place to show some modicum of control over what we do. Rebecca

Rebecca,

Thanks for painting a fuller picture.

Perhaps the owners already think their drawings are under control; at least in terms of their requirements!

May I suggest not importing a new procedure?

Instead, really study, respect and understand the undocumented procedure(s) that are in use. Portray the current procedure or procedures (possibly as a matrix or deployment flowchart or both) so the owners and users can see where they want to make improvements to avoid any waste and frustration.

At least, then, the improved procedure will belong to them and they may then continue to use it.

They may even continue to improve it, albeit slowly.

John

Golfman25 · Feb 28, 2014

RebeccaJay said:
All of the prints we use are ours, proprietary, and in paper form. There are thousands of paper prints and a newly designed database with maybe a couple hundred scanned and cross referenced to new part numbers. Not to mention, no CAD models and every single one needs to be programmed. The man power it would take to get all of these prints scanned and cross referenced is problem #1. Problem #2, the owners are directly involved, one creates the CNC programs as needed (and he is our sales man), I can end up with the original print plus dozens of operational prints (usually just showing different views) in a job file not to mention the actual cut and paste methods used to create prints for outside services. The other owner runs the CNC (and is the cut and paste fanatic). This is their property and if they want to make a copy of a print, they will. But try to point that out in a meeting when you are explaining that rigid document control will not work on our floor( stop making copies, willy-nilly ). I am trying to put something simple in place to show some modicum of control over what we do. Rebecca

2 Questions:

1) When they run a part, where do they get the prints? How do they get into the job file?

2) What to the do with all these prints/copies when they are done running the particular part?

RebeccaJay · Feb 28, 2014

When the job is created the original print is pulled and copied to job file and quality file. Job & Quality file sent to Engineering where the program is created, inspection criteria planned, out sourcing planned, purchasing planned, etc...Job is released to floor and Quality gets their file. In an ideal world, that is.
What really happens...Because we need to start running now, Job file ends up on floor before completion of program and op prints, for programming a copy of original print is made, program and operational prints are fed to floor before glitches, mistakes, proofing are worked out all done in-process, which results in multiple op prints often of the same op because one thing or another was left out, changed, removed, all on floor before a program is proven. Often its just short of mayhem. I am left trying to decipher what will remain in the files and what gets shredded.

95% of the time our customer have no idea what they are ordering, no idea what the material is, no idea what the dimensions are, in fact in many instances the materials we use are proprietary information.

When job is complete, job folder filed in a secure location.
Rebecca

Golfman25 · Feb 28, 2014

RebeccaJay said:
When the job is created the original print is pulled and copied to job file and quality file. Job & Quality file sent to Engineering where the program is created, inspection criteria planned, out sourcing planned, purchasing planned, etc...Job is released to floor and Quality gets their file. In an ideal world, that is.
What really happens...Because we need to start running now, Job file ends up on floor before completion of program and op prints, for programming a copy of original print is made, program and operational prints are fed to floor before glitches, mistakes, proofing are worked out all done in-process, which results in multiple op prints often of the same op because one thing or another was left out, changed, removed, all on floor before a program is proven. Often its just short of mayhem. I am left trying to decipher what will remain in the files and what gets shredded.

95% of the time our customer have no idea what they are ordering, no idea what the material is, no idea what the dimensions are, in fact in many instances the materials we use are proprietary information.

When job is complete, job folder filed in a secure location.
Rebecca

Then, I don't think you have that big of a problem. Do you have any quality issues due to the prints in a constant state of flux? Production is generally organized chaos. If your master print is kept filed and up to date and all the copies are taken off the floor and filed/disposed when the job is complete, you're fine. You just need to make sure that as operations prints are created, changed, and updated, that your job/quality files are being updated. It can be very confusing to the uninitiated, but to those that are involved day to day, they it isn't so bad. Good luck.

Part Prints - Controlled and Uncontrolled Documents (e.g.: The Production Floor)

RebeccaJay

John Broomfield

Golfman25

Jim Wynne

Mark Meer

RebeccaJay

John Broomfield

Golfman25

RebeccaJay

Golfman25

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