AS9100 PPAP requirements for outside Heat Treat vendors/suppiers

Hello,

I am Quality specialist in Aerospace and am new to the whole paperwork side of it. I am currently looking for information on PPAP's for heat treaters. Our Customers obvisouly requires this information but I am not sure what exactly this entails. I have done PPAP's on parts multiple times, but dont know if its the same templates, so to speak, for doing a PPAP on a vendor. Any information will help. Thanks very much!!

I have never done a PPAP on a special process or service, only on a product. Thanks for a very interesting question.

If you are just starting in Aerospace I would recommend buying a copy of AS9102. You will first see that Aerospace likes to have their own terms. We don't do PPAPs, we do First Article Inspections (FAI). The standard includes the specific forms required. Special processes are addressed. Be careful. Most Aerospace Primes have a list of approved suppliers for special processes. Your situation may be different, but all I had to do was show it was an approved supplier and that the CoC listed the correct specification.

Hello JLyt207,

do you mean form 1,2 and 3 on AS9012 is equal to AIAG PPAP manual for customer approval submission?

inspector625 said:

Hello,

I am Quality specialist in Aerospace and am new to the whole paperwork side of it. I am currently looking for information on PPAP's for heat treaters. Our Customers obvisouly requires this information but I am not sure what exactly this entails. I have done PPAP's on parts multiple times, but dont know if its the same templates, so to speak, for doing a PPAP on a vendor. Any information will help. Thanks very much!!

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First get clarification from your customer - that should have been done during contract review. If the answer is yes, go back to the customer and ask for a template that they would like to use or see.

Second, find out if the PPAP is on the final product - not on a special process.

Third, FAIR per AS9102 is not the same or equivilant to a PPAP.

hello dsanabria,

sorry, i doesn't much understand for those stuff because i am new joined in aerospace industry. could you please pass me the example of PPAP especially submit by PCBA supplier? appreciate together with exmaples of APQP. thank you so much

You need to go to your customer (the entity that is requesting that you provide a PPAP for such information...

This should have been done at contract review.

dsanabria said:

This should have been done at contract review.

Click to expand...

I hear an echo...

Just in case it is not clear yet, doing a PPAP in aerospace is unusual. It is common in automotive, but not in aerospace.

A very brief explanation is in order.

PPAP and First Article Inspection have a similar goal. The goal is to ensure product quality. It also just about ends there.

Automotive quality goals and aerospace quality goals are actually somewhat different.

Aerospace is to ensure flight worthyness. An aircraft pilot can't pull over to the side of the road and call a tow truck if something goes wrong while in flight. Typically the volume of production is relatively low. First article inspection helps to attain this.

Automotive goals are to achieve extremely high levels of consistency (one of the definitions of quality) at very high volumes of production, and with extreme cost cutting pressures. The sort of thing that a sensible person may say you have have two out of the three, but not all three. PPAP helps to achieve this.

One of the results of the automotive downturn that seems to be over now is that a lot of quality managers from automotive migrated to other areas, and they took their proclivity of requesting PPAP with them so it started showing up in strange places.

It is my opinion (for what it is worth), that a PPAP has no value for low volume production, but that has not kept it from creaping into other areas.

If you really have a customer that is requesting a PPAP for an application other than automotive, ask why. If they are insistent, ask for help. Don't be bashful about building the cost of the PPAP into the quote.

If you are a supplier of the finished part it is your responsibilty to provide a PPAP not the heat treater. The heat treater should supply you with certification which you should check against your customers spec requirement. If it is in compliance it should be submitted with material certs and anything else that is required for the PPAP level specified.