Is a Procedure generally understood as 'Documented Procedure'

Is a Procedure generally understood as 'Documented Procedure'


  • Total voters
    29
  • Poll closed .

somashekar

Leader
Admin
How does one understand the word 'Procedure' . Do most look to see a document ... ?
 
Last edited:

AndyN

Moved On
Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

Not always documented. If a member of the management team (a process 'owner') says "This is our process", then since it's a management system, that should be good enough!

Of course, that's unlikely to be much use in a big organization. Too much opportunity for the game of 'telephone' to occur. However, in a smaller business, with the process owner being a key player with maybe only a handful of people working on the process, it's not always necessary to document the procedure.
 
D

Duke Okes

Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

How does one understand the word 'Procedure' . Do most look to see a document ... ?

I would say yes. Having a Process does not necessarily indicate a Procedure, but Procedure implies document in my mind.

However, ISO 9000-2000 indicates that a procedure can be documented or not.
 
S

samsung

Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

How does one understand the word 'Procedure' . Do most look to see a document ... ?

Technically it should be understood the way it is but most often and to most individuals, it comes as a 'documented' thing and perhaps for this reason, the standard had to tag the definition with a note clarifying that it can be documented or not.
 
Q

quality person

Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

Hi,
The ISO 9001 standard demands only for 6 mandatory documented procedures. All other procedures are documented based on the size & complexity of the organization. The remaining procedures shall be defined not mandatory to be documented. The 6 mandatory documented procedures are as follows.
1. Procedure for control of documents
2. Procedure for control of records
3. Procedure for Internal audit
4. Procedure for Corrective action
5. Procedure for Preventive action
6. Procedure for non conforming product.


thanks,
Quality6
 

somashekar

Leader
Admin
Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

Hi,
The ISO 9001 standard demands only for 6 mandatory documented procedures. All other procedures are documented based on the size & complexity of the organization. The remaining procedures shall be defined not mandatory to be documented. The 6 mandatory documented procedures are as follows.
1. Procedure for control of documents
2. Procedure for control of records
3. Procedure for Internal audit
4. Procedure for Corrective action
5. Procedure for Preventive action
6. Procedure for non conforming product.


thanks,
Quality6
Hi Quality6.
Welcome here and a good first post. Do you generally expect to see a document for any procedure ?
If it gets documented it comes under the control of documents procedure, if not, then how do one ensure the procedure is consistant .....
 
D

Duke Okes

Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

If it gets documented it comes under the control of documents procedure, if not, then how do one ensure the procedure is consistant .....

Thru training, thru reinforcement & monitoring by the process owner, thru audits, thru monitoring of effectiveness by metrics, ...
 

somashekar

Leader
Admin
Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

Thru training, thru reinforcement & monitoring by the process owner, thru audits, thru monitoring of effectiveness by metrics, ...
A confident and a matured QMS / EHS management system may have lesser documented procedures, yet consistant operations and performance.
How about an objective to reduce the number of documented procedures of the company for an MR ... ? :cool:
 
S

samsung

Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

Thru training, thru reinforcement & monitoring by the process owner, thru audits, thru monitoring of effectiveness by metrics, ...

:agree1: In addition, documenting a procedure on and itself doesn't speak much about consistency in application particularly when the people in the organization don't (or don't want to) read & follow it. Within the ISO domain, documentation itself suffers from major conformity challenges and thus, identified as one of the top listed areas of nonconformity so far as internal & CB assessments are concerned.
 
S

samsung

Re: Is a Procedure always understood as 'Documented Procedure'

A confident and a matured QMS / EHS management system may have lesser documented procedures, yet consistant operations and performance.

It means they had many documented procedures during the initial stage but gradually, they resorted to reducing the numbers. It's not the maturity or amount of documentation alone but a disciplined approach coupled with adherence to a set of values, principles and an impassive attention to critical success factors that bring consistency in performance.

How about an objective to reduce the number of documented procedures of the company for an MR ... ? :cool:

Not a value adding goal to pursue, in my opinion. What are you going to achieve after all?
 
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