Customer Requests Copy of Audit Report

I thought this was interesting:

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Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 14:44:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Customer/vendor request Audit report /Tyler/Green

From: Joseph Green

Comment on "customer request"
(Sounds a lot like "voice of the customer" to me)
("vendor" sounds like "mutually beneficial supplier relationship")

My response follows Mark's original posting.

>"Mark Tyler" wrote:
>
> Our company has had a request to submit the cover sheet from the ISO
> 9000 Auditor's report. This lists the number of elements with
> non-conformities and the Auditor's recommendation.
>
> Is this a one time occurrence or is this going to become a regular
> request?
>

Dear Mark,

Your question; "will this become a regular request?", is yes. As more and more organizations mature in quality management system effectiveness the true value added product of conformity is "documented confidence".

If I were evaluating and selecting a "significant" or "critical" supplier I would be delighted to see the organization's "audit record" including any recent or still open non conformities.

As a "customer" I respect the option of confidential documents; however, the aspect of willingness to share the information contained in those documents says a great deal about the basic non delusional integrity of the supplier under consideration.

There will be "Dilbert" style insanity with this trend, because the childish organizations with no particular plan or vision (or need) (or use), will start to make "me too" requests. We (my organization) will deal with that as it happens. For now if you would like to see copies of our Audit Notes, Audit Recap, Non Conformities, Opportunities For Improvement etc.

Joe Green

Hi Marc,

I can see where a customer might want to see the cover page (provided the customer knows what he/she is looking at). However, I think that, any non-conformances that have been corrected and closed should also be included. While the cover letter will provided information on the quality system, the additional information will provide information on the timliness/effectiveness of the corrective action program.

Cheers!!!

Mike

Like in the movie "Green Mile", you keep your problems "in-house". Releasing any actual audit findings and subsequent Corrective Actions is, to me, airing your laundry in public. It also allows a potential or existing Customer to second guess or misinterpret your Company's Management style resulting in loss of business. Let the Customer audit your Corrective/Preventive Action System, as is their right. Don't make it easy for anybody to sit back and pick your process apart by nitpicking your past decisions from on high.
Again, JMHO

Hi Energy...

I absolutely agree - what happens on the mile stays on the mile - I certainly wouldn't want to air dirty laundry in public and certainly wouldn't want to provide any customers with copies of our audits. However, if this became an issue and a customer demanded a copy of the last audit report, I feel that they should also see that any NCR's were dealt with.

So far no one has asked to see an audit report (knock on wood) and let's hope it stays that way.

Cheers!!!

Mike

Been a while since I posted, but I HAD to jump on this one.
I've been a QP (quality professional) for *@(#&*# years, and in all that time ,I have NEVER heard of a customer ask for audit findings. My question is, who in the customer's company wants it and WHY?
Dear Customer:
Want a copy of our ISO registration? It's in the mail!
Want a list of companys who have audited us and put us on "preferred supplier" status? You got it!
Want to come perform an audit of our Quality Management system? Come on over!
Want audit findings from internal, 2nd or 3rd partys? NO WAY, JOSE! As Energy says, this stuff stays on the mile.
By the way, Energy, with a little "tweeking" and some personalized changes, I'm using your ISO slide presentation for my new 9k/2k ISO Awareness training classes. Thanks much.
Mark: This forum is THE best. Hope to participate more in the future, as long as this #&#($ work will stop interrupting the good stuff.
More anon..........Ross

[This message has been edited by Ross Simpson (edited 13 July 2001).]

I know this is an old post but as far as I can tell the rules still apply. A customer requested an audit report from us after we already provided the 13485 certificate to them that is valid through 2018. One a side note there were no observations last fall, however I feel this just sets a bad precedent. is this still the feeling today? In my past positions while maintaining the ASL I never requested the report nor have I been asked to provide one. And to top it off we were told we can opt for an onsite audit that they would contract out and we would be responsible for the cost.

Look at this thread.

I have requested to review audit reports when visiting new suppliers in Asia. Because I have "veto power" on sourcing, I haven't been refused yet.

I find it useful to see an indication of the depth of the third party audit process. I started looking at these after seeing serious nonconformity on requirements I consider absolute basics. For example, I discovered at one supplier of a molded composite material that the temperature and pressure gages on their machines weren't calibrated (and in fact one of the pressure gages was totally broken!). Yet their registrar had never checked any of the temperature and pressure gages! They did check that micrometers and calipers were calibrated, but the actual process parameters were vital to the performance of the product... but not included on the calibration schedule, and never challenged by auditors.

I used to do supplier audits on the assumption that my audits didn't need to cover standard ISO 9001 requirements like calibration, document control, training, etc., as the third party auditors would handle them. But, I've learned that sometimes this assumption is totally invalid. If I see that the third party reports are consistent with my observations that gives me comfort; when I see that they're inconsistent I know that I need to be more vigilant.

Fascinating - another thing I thought I had invented that somebody else did first. Oh well, that explains why the royalty checks haven't arrived yet.

[bpritts], you nailed it above. When I'm reviewing a potential supplier, I'm more interested in knowing how up front they're willing to be with me than I am in the fact that they manage to pass an audit once a year.

You can tell a lot by the response you get to a polite request for some dirty laundry, qualified with encouraging them to remove names and other information.

I like to see an internal audit report resulting in a corrective action, an example of root cause analysis, and an example those regarding an external audit finding. Also a customer SCAR is helpful. You can get some clue as to if they just go through the motions or if they know how to use their tools.

And if they tell you to get lost, then you have an idea of how they may respond when you need them to get serious about something else.

Hi all,
it is again about SCR - quality agreements and manuals .

You have to be carefull when you are signing the documents like this and read it completely .

But to be honest , I would never send any reports from system audits ,i repeat : NEVER .
And I have never asked for it .That is the Job for certification body and THAT IS ALL YOU NEED - Certificate of QMS .
In case that you are interested and want to see the supplier performance , you should ask for PROCESS AUDIT (must be agreed in contract).
As the process of production of your product has been validated by you during project phase ,then there is nothing to hide in serial phase .

In case that it is new -potential supplier ,use self assesment form developed by you or by VDA - depends on contract again .
But the best way is to see the procesess personally
There is no reason to ask for system audit results - certificate MUST BE ENOUGHT ! .

Have a great weekend.
Michal.