The Cove Business Standards Discussion Forums More Free Files Forum Discussion Thread Post Attachments Listing Cove Discussion Forums Main Page
UL - Underwriters Laboratories - Health Sciences
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Nonconformance and Corrective Action
Forum Username

Elsmar Cove Forum Visitor Notice(s)

Wooden Line

CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) Discussions are Getting Out of Hand


Elsmar XML RSS Feed
Elsmar Cove Forum RSS Feed

Monitor the Elsmar Forum
Sponsor Links




Courtesy Quick Links


Links that Cove visitors will find useful in your quest for knowledge:

International Standards Bodies - World Wide Standards Bodies

ASQ - American Society for Quality

International Standards Organization - ISO Standards and Information

Howard's
International Quality Services


Marcelo Antunes'
SQR Consulting, and
Medical Devices Expert Forum


Bob Doering
Bob Doering's Blogs and,
Correct SPC - Precision Machining


Ajit Basrur
Claritas Consulting, LLC


NIST's Engineering Statistics Handbook

IRCA - International Register of Certified Auditors

SAE - Society of Automotive Engineers

Quality Digest

IEST - Institute of Environmental Sciences and Technology


Some Related Topic Tags (Not all threads are Tagged)
capa (corrective and preventive action), corrective action (ca), preventive action (pa)
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 3.00 average. Display Modes
  Post Number #1  
Old 11th August 2006, 03:49 AM
Rezzi

 
 
Total Posts: 16
I Say... CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) Discussions are Getting Out of Hand

Hi all
Having looking through the excessive amount regarding different interpretations, discussion and arguments regarding CA and PA, I must say it is somehow getting out of hand.

There are a trillion of different products for different purposes regulated under the ISO standards and regulations.

The manufacturing companies are of different culture, training, size and resources.

Therefore I cant see the possibility of only one single "correct" interpretation of the CAPA.

I would say if your CAPA process cuts costs, results in a better product/process, your collegues (and the registrar) are satisfied and the product is safe, then hey, good work, in this case the question about whether an action is correction, corrective action or preventive action of a more academic interest.

Sponsored Links
  Post Number #2  
Old 11th August 2006, 04:25 AM
Gert Sorensen's Avatar
Gert Sorensen

 
 
Total Posts: 1,278
Re: CAPA discussions getting out of hand

Well said!
Sponsored Links

  Post Number #3  
Old 11th August 2006, 06:34 AM
CarolX's Avatar
CarolX

 
 
Total Posts: 2,168
Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Hi Rezzi,

You do have a point. But, look at it this way. The reason there is so much discussion is because folks are learning the subject matter.

Here at the Cove, a LOT of people come here that have little or no experience in the Quality field, mostly because they are young and are new to their jobs or assignments. A lot of questions are asked, sometimes over and over again. But that is what this site is about....People helping People.

Often, the confusion is what is "preventive action". And, of course since we have over 5000 regular users, we have a variety of opinions and ideas, so often the discussions become long and drawn out. It's just the nature of the site.
  Post Number #4  
Old 11th August 2006, 08:15 AM
Randy's Avatar
Randy

 
 
Total Posts: 8,522
Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

CA...If it breaks fix it and fix it in a way to keep it from breaking again due to the original cause.

PA...If it looks like it might break find out why and fix it so it doesn't.

What's so hard to understand?
  Post Number #5  
Old 11th August 2006, 02:16 PM
Peter Fraser's Avatar
Peter Fraser

 
 
Total Posts: 456
Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Randy

CA...If it breaks fix it and fix it in a way to keep it from breaking again due to the original cause.

PA...If it looks like it might break find out why and fix it so it doesn't.

What's so hard to understand?
Randy

Well said. What is so hard to understand is the ISO words - they obviously aren't clear since there is so much confusion and debate. So they need to be changed.
  Post Number #6  
Old 11th August 2006, 02:34 PM
skappesser's Avatar
skappesser

 
 
Total Posts: 35
Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Ah - there's the rub! A RAB certified ISO auditor once told me that a CA is a PA in that once it is in place and effective it inherently prevents recurrance...he picked that mindset up from an audit he did at a company in Dubai.
  Post Number #7  
Old 11th August 2006, 03:06 PM
Craig H.

 
 
Total Posts: 2,048
Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by skappesser

Ah - there's the rub! A RAB certified ISO auditor once told me that a CA is a PA in that once it is in place and effective it inherently prevents recurrance...he picked that mindset up from an audit he did at a company in Dubai.
Yes, and you can apply a CA to one process in response to a problem, but then apply the same action to similar processes to keep the problem from happening, making what was just a pure CA a hybrid CA/PA.
  Post Number #8  
Old 11th August 2006, 07:29 PM
Sidney Vianna's Avatar
Sidney Vianna

 
 
Total Posts: 8,671
Re: CAPA (Corrective and Preventive Action) discussions getting out of hand

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Rezzi

I would say if your CAPA process cuts costs, results in a better product/process, your collegues (and the registrar) are satisfied and the product is safe, then hey, good work, in this case the question about whether an action is correction, corrective action or preventive action of a more academic interest.
Negative . When a organization self declares compliant or is certified to ISO 9001, their customers have the "right" to expect that they know the difference between correction, corrective action and preventive action. If it was not important, ISO 9000 would not have such terms DEFINED. If you disregard the official interpretations, then the whole concept of standardization vanishes...
It is CRITICAL that organizations implementing ISO 9001 understand the difference, and act accordingly.
Reply

Lower Navigation Bar
Go Back   The Elsmar Cove Business Systems and Standards Discussion Forums > Common Quality Assurance Processes and Tools > Nonconformance and Corrective Action

Bookmarks



Visitors Currently Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 Registered Visitors (Members) and 1 Unregistered Guest Visitors)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Forum Search
Display Modes Rate Thread Content
Rate Thread Content:

Forum Posting Settings
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Emoticons are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Discussion Threads
Discussion Thread Title Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post or Poll Vote
How to measure CAPA (Corrective Action Preventive Action) System Performance QA Memphis Nonconformance and Corrective Action 20 9th August 2010 11:36 AM
CAPA (Corrective Action Preventive Action) example to provide training wanted class08820 Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7 1st October 2008 09:54 AM
CAPA (corrective action preventive action) Effectiveness - Medical Device Industry jampot Nonconformance and Corrective Action 3 26th February 2006 04:22 PM
Quality Management Book On Capa (Corrective Action Preventive Action) DAUDI NAKASALA Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 4 15th February 2005 12:06 PM
Audit Program and CAPA (Corrective Action - Preventive Action) Effectiveness e006823 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4 22nd July 2004 01:51 PM



The time now is 08:49 AM. All times are GMT -4.
Your time zone can be changed in your UserCP --> Options.


 
 


NOTE: This forum uses "Cookies"