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Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Management Review Meeting - Page 3


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management review, upper management, upper management support
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  Post Number #17  
Old 5th January 2017, 05:24 PM
Sigvarr

 
 
Total Posts: 9
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Jen,

thank you for your response the maturity of the companies QMS would be the sperm meeting the egg... Everyone is new to it, I don't have a single lead that knows the standard or have knowledge of the basics. I am starting from scratch with every project. We lost a sales manager due to demotion about halfway through my first year, they didnt replace him for several months. When they finally moved someone from one of the other businesses over she completely refused to work with me on ISO. After months of struggle they finally told her that she better get on board. The thing is they won't let me give documents to anyone until it's reviewed by QA then handed off to data entry to 'control' the file which I thought was OK and really have no problems with to this day.

Oh yes, he apparently talks to the owner almost every night... The reason why they are asking to review them is because they want to use them corporation wide, they used the documents to get another facility ISO certified already. The way he wrote the email is stating that they will go over everything but I will have no say in the meeting. If it at least seemed like I would have a voice even if they don't take my opinion it would be one thing but I'm not even getting that.

Yeah I have decided it's time to part ways just waiting to get a bite...

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  Post Number #18  
Old 5th January 2017, 05:47 PM
Sigvarr

 
 
Total Posts: 9
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mngmnt Review Meeting

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by PaulJSmith View Post

From my point of view, I think this is the first place you should look for problems. If you are doing it all yourself, you are basically imposing your way on the company. You'll never get buy-in or any sense of ownership this way from the people responsible for the tasks you've documented. Doing everything yourself may get it done in the short term, but it's setting you and the company up for failure in the long run ... which fruits I think you are starting to see already.



This is a recipe for frustration, for sure. It's also a recipe for eventual failure. A good auditor will see right through this. If upper management isn't supporting this 100%, then you are probably wasting your time at this company (in my opinion, anyway ... I spent 4 years in a similarly unsupportive situation).
Ha! No I agree 100% I started with Sales when I first got hired, and that Manager at least acted like he wanted to work with me. He wasted months of my time by not being decisive then I was stuck with out a sales manager for about 4 so I started cleaning up quality.

I have been stripped of any sense of being a manager even though that is what I was hired as. Originally they told me that the owner has a thing about giving out management titles for legal reasons. OK cool I don't care what I am called I just want support when I need it, this is exactly what I said. Now I have a sales manager that doesn't respect me, the operations manager that clearly voiced her opinion on the fact that she wants nothing to do with ISO. Then a production manager that is all talk on supporting the importance of ISO...

I have been looking on and off last year, guess I will just hit it full force and hope I get a good bite.

Thank you for your response, has given me something to think about.
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  Post Number #19  
Old 5th January 2017, 05:54 PM
Sigvarr

 
 
Total Posts: 9
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mngmnt Review Meeting

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by Golfman25 View Post

Respectfully, I can see where this is a problem. You come in and propose a whole lot of forms and work instructions and push them on the company. Nobody likes forms and work instructions. The reason you don't have approval is your boss never looked at them -- who has that kind of time these days. I would strip it down to bare bones. Let your people tell you what forms and instructions are beneficial. Work with them. What do your fellow managers at your division think/do? Can they set their own KPIs? Why do you think you need hand holding from "corporate?" Make the division perform, make the "corporate" guys look good, and things will work out.
Nah only thing that I have done is fix the procedures that didn't cover the full clause. It was his idea to review the documents, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is no answer at all even after reminders. Tell me no it won't work, OK I will try something else. Tell me it doesn't fit our busoness, OK how would it? Give me some info on why you have asked to review documents but do not respond to some of them at all.

My twin in another company has the same problem with him responding to emails. Hell production, sales, and operations have all expressed frustration due to him not responding to them....
  Post Number #20  
Old 5th January 2017, 08:44 PM
Jen Kirley's Avatar
Jen Kirley

 
 
Total Posts: 5,959
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Quite awhile back I moved from an advanced technician-level position in a mature QMS/EMS/OHSAS organization, to a family-owned small business whose leadership had decided it was time to bring in an inspector/Safety Officer who also understood chemical handling. The experience was like a professional lobster dip. I was there to inspect product under direction of the President (owner), do site safety inspections and report same to the President (owner), and "other duties as assigned."

Pretty soon I was asked "Do you mind helping with cleaning these parts before inspecting them?"and before you know it, I was doing that more than my regular work.

I did the safety inspections and reported as instructed, but was rarely heeded.

I tried to offer suggestions, such as "How about if we mark the material so we know what it is?" but this was deemed too much effort - until they lost a copper billet worth $8,000 in 1998 dollars. Then they put identification on the copper billets.

I lasted there four years. I felt like I needed counseling after that. I had gotten ASQ CQI and CQT by now, but realized that though they wanted a quality engineer, I would never have authority there. They wanted ... someone else. I later heard they brought in a CQE and that he had basically the same experience I had had. He lasted for a dignified amount of time too, then left.

I can't speak to your specific circumstance; only you truly know all the factors. I can only relate that there are times you really do just have to look out for number one. We can't control what others do, but we can (usually) control how we feel and how we respond.

Good luck to you.
Thank You to Jen Kirley for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #21  
Old 6th January 2017, 09:43 AM
bigqman

 
 
Total Posts: 48
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Sigvarr, you have decided to look elsewhere - will you make any changes to your interviewing / search process that will mitigate the chances of this happening again? (This is a question I have been challenging myself with the most recent portion of my career.)
Good luck!
  Post Number #22  
Old 6th January 2017, 11:50 AM
Sigvarr

 
 
Total Posts: 9
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Jen,

Thanks again for the support I know it's a common event in our industry it is just hard to swallow and give up on the place. This company is family owned as well the owner takes some strange hard stances but I just can't shake the feeling that he just wants to use the cert to gain business but doesn't want to do the actual work/changes that are required.

Thanks again for your insight and responses they were much appreciated!
  Post Number #23  
Old 6th January 2017, 12:08 PM
Sigvarr

 
 
Total Posts: 9
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

Quote:
In Reply to Parent Post by bigqman View Post

Sigvarr, you have decided to look elsewhere - will you make any changes to your interviewing / search process that will mitigate the chances of this happening again? (This is a question I have been challenging myself with the most recent portion of my career.)
Good luck!
Yes sir,

But first off a little back story, in March it will have been 2 years since my wife's Grandfather, Mother, and sister all committed suicide within a 2 week time frame. A year before that I went through a hip replacement in my early 30s. The company I was with at that time was very good to me, paid my $3,000 deductible for my surgery but then a year or so later the economy dropped off again.

This company was almost solely dependent on the oil industry, well things got tight and they had to let me go.

I took this current job after my wife had already been out of work for a year, and it took me about a month to get hired on to this company. I took a two grand pay cut that was supposed to be reviewed in 90 days to bring me up to where I was with my last company.

My wife is still out of work, needless to say the last 3 years have really taken a toll on her and myself. We are hoping she finds work again soon with the new year, looking for work now is not ideal. I NEED to have insurance both of us deal with chronic ailments. Mine reared their heads after my hip surgery she has been dealing with hers since she was 17.

Needless to say I have a lot to think about when looking for a new job while having a job. This time I don't have to settle to be sure we have an income. I have another year and a half of experience to put on my resume which puts me at 10 years of experience with ISO9001. My confedence in my ability to perform has only been improved as this is the third company that I have helped get certified.

Now to just find a place that I feel I can actually do some good, a place that wants to take things seriously.
Thanks to Sigvarr for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
  Post Number #24  
Old 6th January 2017, 12:27 PM
Kronos147

 
 
Total Posts: 206
Re: Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Mgment Review Meeting

In general, some basic thoughts/questions about the situation:

Who has the responsibility\authority to conduct Management Review?

To the OP, if it is not you, then are you responsible\authorized to issue an NCR to the Process Owner?

I look at quality manager positions as system cheerleaders. You have to find reasons to encourage everyone to play ball, including upper management at times. You have to 'watch the game' (audit) and cheer for the good, and groan to the bad.

Once identified, NCR's must be delegated, and then the quality role is not to implement the correction, but to evaluate the effectiveness of the correction.

Crossing that line and doing it for them often negatively impacts "buy in".


Oh, Management Review not done? NCR. Oh, no response to the NCR? Escalate internally to Major. Documents not reviewed/approved in time? NCR. If that is the only tool I have at my disposal, I will use it. When the audit comes around and the stuff hits the fan, at least there is a documented trail of your activities to employ controlled system tools to address improvement.
Thanks to Kronos147 for your informative Post and/or Attachment!
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