Charged for an AS9102 FAI Report when requested as part of a Purchase Order?

J

Jason PCSwitches

Has anyone ever seen, heard of, and/or had an organization apply a charge for an AS9102 FAI report when requested as part of a purchase order?

If so, how much? If not, do you think this is reasonable?
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
Re: Charge For An AS9102

Yes! Many companies do charge from 75.00 to 300.00+ per FAIR. The amount of time that it takes someone to complete all required documents, forms and related data can be a drained in smaller companies.

This is negotiable and discussed during contract review process. if the company does not accept the FAIR fee - it is hidden in the price of the product / process - a common practice.
 
J

Jeff Frost

Re: Charge For An AS9102

A nice round number seems to be about 4 hours at your shop rate.
 
A

andygr

Of course they are not required by the AS9100 standard to perform the FAI to this AS9102 standard so if required by PO they have the right to charge for this specific requirement. The typical range is as indicated.
It does bother me when we are charged for a copy of the FAI which is required by the AS9100 standard our suppliers are required to comply with.
I believe that at most I should only pay for the fee associated with copying what they are required to do per para 7.5.1.1.
It really becomes a balance of the cost of an onsite audit to verify ( under our right of entry clause) or the cost they quote to supply it.
:2cents:
 
J

Jeff Frost

I believe that at most I should only pay for the fee associated with copying what they are required to do per para 7.5.1.1.
It really becomes a balance of the cost of an onsite audit to verify ( under our right of entry clause) or the cost they quote to supply it.
:2cents:

AS9100B or C does not require organizations to perform first articles to the requirements of AS9102 only that a first article be performed in any format to any applicable key or critical requirements related to manufacturing of the product. AS9102, when contractual specified, must verify conformance to all requirements stated in the PO, on the drawing and in the referenced specifications and is not the same as a manufacturing FAI.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Trusted Information Resource
Has anyone ever seen, heard of, and/or had an organization apply a charge for an AS9102 FAI report when requested as part of a purchase order?

If so, how much? If not, do you think this is reasonable?

Another option, since a supplier will freak out whenever they hear there is a FAIR required. They have to maintain some type of inspection records:

Ask for their inspections records and don't call it a FAIR. Use those records to complete your FAIR if you are required to fill out the AS9102 per your contract/purchase order requirements.

But, this is my opinion and just a suggestion.
 
J

Jason PCSwitches

I've got a client that is volunteering to pay for an AS9102 & my organization will gladly accept. I'm looking for a fair $$ amount to recommend for the base fee (beyond labor).
 

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
Another option, since a supplier will freak out whenever they hear there is a FAIR required. They have to maintain some type of inspection records:

Ask for their inspections records and don't call it a FAIR. Use those records to complete your FAIR if you are required to fill out the AS9102 per your contract/purchase order requirements.

But, this is my opinion and just a suggestion.

Careful... if AS9102 is invoked - it is more than dimensional attributes. It requires more information from suppliers:

AS per ....
The Organization should conduct the following activities in support of FAI.
1. Review documentation for the manufacturing process (e.g., routing sheets,
manufacturing/quality plans, manufacturing work instructions, etc.) to make sure all operations are complete as planned.

2. Review referenced exhibits supporting the FAI (e.g., inspection data, test data, Acceptance Test Procedures, etc.) for completeness.

3. Review non conformance documentation (if any), for completeness.
NOTE: International Aerospace Standard 9131 may be used as a guidance.

4. Review material certifications for compliance, as applicable.

5. Verify that approved Special Process sources are used (as applicable), and that the manufacturing planning/routing document calls out the correct specification.

6. Verify that Key Characteristic requirements have been met, as applicable (see International Aerospace Standard 9103 for guidance).

7. Verify part specific gages and/or tooling are qualified and traceable, as applicable.

8. Verify that every design characteristic requirement is accounted for, uniquely identified and has inspection results traceable to each unique identifier.


Maybe now the price established for AS9102 can make sense for small companies to stay in business.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Trusted Information Resource
Careful... if AS9102 is invoked - it is more than dimensional attributes. It requires more information from suppliers:

AS per ....
The Organization should conduct the following activities in support of FAI.
1. Review documentation for the manufacturing process (e.g., routing sheets,
manufacturing/quality plans, manufacturing work instructions, etc.) to make sure all operations are complete as planned.

2. Review referenced exhibits supporting the FAI (e.g., inspection data, test data, Acceptance Test Procedures, etc.) for completeness.

3. Review non conformance documentation (if any), for completeness.
NOTE: International Aerospace Standard 9131 may be used as a guidance.

4. Review material certifications for compliance, as applicable.

5. Verify that approved Special Process sources are used (as applicable), and that the manufacturing planning/routing document calls out the correct specification.

6. Verify that Key Characteristic requirements have been met, as applicable (see International Aerospace Standard 9103 for guidance).

7. Verify part specific gages and/or tooling are qualified and traceable, as applicable.

8. Verify that every design characteristic requirement is accounted for, uniquely identified and has inspection results traceable to each unique identifier.


Maybe now the price established for AS9102 can make sense for small companies to stay in business.

First I appreciate your concern, but I have been involved with FAIR/AS9102 for over 20 years. I know there is more required for the AS9102.

Thanks for the warning :nope:
 
J

Jeff Frost

Ask for their inspections records and don't call it a FAIR. Use those records to complete your FAIR if you are required to fill out the AS9102 per your contract/purchase order requirements.

Actually anyone in the chain from the organization that makes the product, purchased the product for resale or even the final customer can complete an AS9102 FAI. I have received numerous phone calls over the years from 2nd tier customers with inspection departments saying that they need an AS9102 FAI PDQ (usually for free) and they are very sorry because they forgot the flow down this requirement. They have the certifications we supplied with the product, the same drawing and specifications from their customer and the capability to inspect the product in-house but somehow they think only the organization that actually made the product must complete a FAI. They can inspect the product and complete the FAI without any additional records which is what they should do.
 
Top Bottom